Which kayak as a guide platform?

I'm kinda with Lee. Don't have a preference for a certain model. But if I were thinking about becoming a world champion kayak fisherman (which I am) I might want to go out a few different times with a guide and try several different options to see which one might work best for me. As an example I have guided at Mountain Bike Oregon three times now and I know clients that bring $5000 bikes but still want to demo other brands and styles. You maybe could even work on a deal with different manufacturers to provide "Feedback" for the use and exposure to their kayaks.

On another note I was initially interested in the idea of a tandem but the more I think about it the more I think about how much happens "in front of me" on the kayak and how it might be easier for you to assist in guide duties if you could pull up to the front of the clients boat as opposed to him or her having to hand stuff back to you. It might also be easier to store your gear in two solo kayaks vs one tandem with less storage options (I say that without knowing the full offering of tandem SOT's).     

Anyhow my 2 cents worth.

I've given this some thought lately, and IMO the prefered guide platform is whatever is going to allow you to be an effective guide.  I think it should be a faster boat, allowing you to respond to any emergency that will arise - and they will.  It should also have a good carry capacity, again for emergencies, and emergency equipment.  So, yeah, pretty much any 14-15' boat while a customer is in a 13', wider slower boat.  I don't doubt your ability to paddle, and get somewhere in a hurry, but anything that can give you a bit of an edge the better. 

Very few guides charter on tandems.  One of the big allures of kayak fishing is captaining your own ship.

Just because not many people do it doesn't mean it's not a good idea. Look at kayak fishing 5 years ago. Each person has their own reasons for liking kayak fishing.

Maybe if you're guiding one on one.  But you're not making much money like that.  What do you do with 4 clients?  You don't want to be paired with one person and have to pedal/paddle that person around to check on the other 3 clients.  And I'm sure that client doesn't want to either.

-Allen

DIVORCE BOAT!

We typically don't use tandems because they are not as quick to maneuver or easy to deal with should problems arise on the water. As a sea kayak guide you have to have a performer. I have to be able to catch up to someone, rocket between clients, zip around between boats in order to effectively perform rescues etc in the worst conditions. I actually discourage clients using them on our SJ tours because if for some reason someone capsized, they are a real bitch to T-rescue.

Lots of/most tour groups up there use tandems, because they're taking inexperienced paddlers off the ferry on a pleasure cruise who have never kayaked. they are more stable and a little easier to deal with your first time in a boat. Our trips are geared more toward learning skills and becoming an effective member of a group at sea. After our trips, you should be able to do your own trips, we only use single sea kayaks......except for the SOT specific SJ fishing trip I'm running in June.

It could be done how ever, but there are more cons than pros IMHO.

Keep it simple.  Absolutely nothing wrong with paddle craft.  Think middle of the road.  It needs to be all things for all people.  Trident 13, Cobra FnD, etc.

From a business perspective, it takes quite a number of trips to recoup the cost of a kayak.  It is easier to do with a kayak that doesn't cost as much, but is still quality.

My 2 cents ...

-Allen

I personally would use hobie pedal drives if you're talking ocean/sound. they require zero experience and the pedal is easier for nubes to deal with wind/current etc.
You can take people kayak fishing without having to teach them to kayak first. (I think) the paddle is more effective in the right hands, which is hardly ever a first timer. I had a client in a hobie and a client in an ok trident, and the hobie guy breezed through wind and current while the OK guy lagged.

I think it all comes down to having the right tool for the right application/fishery, what might work best for bay crabbing would not be ideal for offshore trolling.  I can see the benefits of a tandem ( and like the idea and would like to demo one) if you are taking a total newbie (to fishing and kayaking) out for a day or rockfishing or trolling etc. You handle the details and they just fish.  I also see the the benefit of individual yaks for each fishermen particularly if you plan to take more than one client with you (which makes things more profitable ) or they have a bit more in the skill department and want the independence Pole mentioned. Having variety in the types of kayaks you provide would be critical.  Time to get cracking summer is just around the corner

that's the key.

being able to provide what ever works best for what ever you are doing is the only way to really make it happen.

On an SJ trip in the summer with 10-12 clients, we have everything from 5' 95lb ladies to 6'6 300lb dudes.

It's kind of a catch 22 if you are starting from scratch. having a variety of boats in the fleet also means more expense.

If I'm thinking about starting small and cheap, just getting one boat, and offering short trips off the beach, maybe a tandem isn't so bad. When the calendar is full, buy more boats.

I do think you could probably bank taking tourists off the beach at PC in the summer on a tandem. That's a whole different experience if you're driving the boat for them though. More like vacationers on the log ride at six flags and that's something I try to avoid these days.

It is probably a cost effective way to get started and pay the bills, and could lead to being able to buy more boats and run single seat trips.
also pretty time effective as far as getting people out on the water fishing because there wouldn't be a ton of instruction time.

It's also important to remember that the entire paddle sports industry only generates $300m/year. 

It's also important to remember that the entire paddle sports industry only generates $300m/year. 

The nice thing about SOT kayak(s) and the related gear needed to outfit clients is its relatively inexpensive in relation to getting into PB Guiding.  Even if its a small niche in the grand scheme of things the market exists (Oregon) and service to popular fisheries is non-existent.  Just having the right gear is half the equation, the other half is made up of the local knowledge needed to provide a quality experience and put fish in the boat on a regular basis.     "If you build it, they will come"    Beats working for the Man...

I think it all comes down to having the right tool for the right application/fishery, what might work best for bay crabbing would not be ideal for offshore trolling.  I can see the benefits of a tandem ( and like the idea and would like to demo one) if you are taking a total newbie (to fishing and kayaking) out for a day or rockfishing or trolling etc. You handle the details and they just fish.  I also see the the benefit of individual yaks for each fishermen particularly if you plan to take more than one client with you (which makes things more profitable ) or they have a bit more in the skill department and want the independence Pole mentioned. Having variety in the types of kayaks you provide would be critical.  Time to get cracking summer is just around the corner

Sounds like you don't need any of our help.

I have fished w/ PPaddler quite a few times in his home waters and they might as well have been guided trips. I'm really looking forward to him getting this together. Great kayak fisherman and all around good guy as well. Being that he's got a sled amongst the kayaks also i'd say he'll be the guide with the ultimate in fishing versatility.

Z

Ron, if and when you do get this kayak guide service off the ground, I will certainly aim people your way that want to experience a big fish from a small craft.  There are lots of people out there that can't get past the price of yak and all the gear with their income, but a guided trip could at least get them the first time of possibly many in the future.  You are certainly up to the task of providing a great experience.   
 

-Craig

Ron, if and when you do get this kayak guide service off the ground, I will certainly aim people your way that want to experience a big fish from a small craft.  There are lots of people out there that can't get past the price of yak and all the gear with their income, but a guided trip could at least get them the first time of possibly many in the future.  You are certainly up to the task of providing a great experience.   
 

-Craig

Very kind... thanks.. 

Knee deep in the process as we speak.

Wow, I've missed a lot this fall/winter.  Good to see things are still lively!  I'm coming in on this post late, but my experience may be helpful.

My reply takes the form of a few questions.  I don't intend this to come off as confrontational, at all; take the questions as food for thought. 

Can a guide retain fish, or fish at all, while working?  (pertinent question when once considers storage of catch - can't fish while guiding in Alaska, though haven't checked OR or WA)

How do you show somebody how to tie a knot when you are in a tandem?  (Don't trust them to turn sideways, and you can't be doing it all the time, either.)

How do you keep them from smacking you in the face with a 4oz lead when they have a nasty snarl? (passing a pole around, especially behind you, is problematic for sure.  Much easier to do when in your own boat parked just inside rod tip distance)

How do you net a fish that is stubbornly staying in the bow region of the tandem? (a single boat can approach client from any angle)

If your client tips a tandem, you both go in.  (it will happen.  Murphy's law dictates it.)

Would you trust your client to remove that 2/0 hook that they lodged in your ear when things got squirly? (even saying "you won't need to cast today" won't keep people from doing what they know.  Can't tell you how many birds nests I had to unsnarl because the client "knew what he was doing" and decided to ignore my advice.  SO, SO many people still fish against structure that they can easily visualize, like they see on TV, and they want to cast instead of moving the boat)

How do you unsnag a fishing line from the "other" pedal drive (tandem?) or, do you trust your client to remove said pedal drive on their own boat and not drop it? (clean undersides are MUCH easier for noob fishermen to keep from snagging, especially when they don't know how to guide a fish's head)

Can you leash down everything expensive without creating a snarling nightmare and safety risk?  (doubt it)

Are you going to take an extra mirage drive for when one craps out once you are "out there."  (especially pertinent for single boats)

Do you WANT your clients on the water for over 3 hours? (Really, think about it.  Butt-cheeks that aren't adjusted to kayaks will often go numb after an hour or so.)

Is the pedal drive (when trolling) creating a multi-tasking nightmare when the clients are complete noobs?  (I think it may. It only takes a few minutes to show somebody how to paddle and troll at the same time, ESPECIALLY good in the FnD's when they DON'T have a rod holder.  Much safer for the gear, too.)

These are a just a few things that came to mind when I skimmed this post.  I spent several months straight in the kayak fishing guiding arena.  I've learned from one of the best (ketchikankayakco.com), and tossed around all these questions.  On the ground, however, Keep It Simple can't be stressed enough.  Maybe keep the Hobie's reserved for repeat customers, once they've proven they have the skills.  It's unlikely that you'll want to take anyone farther than a half mile or so from the launch.  If your fishing destination requires any kind of real paddling/pedaling (buoy 10), you will need to find only experienced kayak fishermen clientele  (who usually have their own boat and won't be paying you anyway, especially if the read NWKA  ).

So, is this a betrayal of my dearly loved Team?  Not at all.  I'd LOVE-LOVE-LOVE to have a fleet of Outbacks, and take people fishing on them - on flat water in good weather.  Ocean fishing, well, that needs a GREAT fishing hole, close to shore.   But not a Revo or Adventure.  A noob needs a battleship like the Outback.  Anything skinnier and they would need some experience before I'd be comfortable committing to having them home safe, dry and on time.

Good questions Brian, good to see ya again.

I wouldn't get tandems on purpose for sure, maybe one if any just to have if a husband and wife aren't sick of each other enough yet to want seperate boats. I wouldn't guide(newbs) on a tandem for just the reasons you put forth and i don't want to be slapped in the side of the head with a slimy fish either.

Of course I am biased to Hobies so I would just get a fleet of Outbacks for the clients and have a revo to speeed around and help them out. Just insert your favorite brand stable boat for the clients and a faster one for you.

I don't see how trolling is easier on a paddle boat for a newbie then a pedal yak. But you could have a beginner day or safety class that has to be completed  before they can do a more technical fish? if that sounds reasonable?

Leash the drive and paddle and just get cheaper rods and take the chance of losing them. I think two leashes is enough for newbies. The guide tries to carry the more important gear.

If a drive craps out, give them yours and you(the guide) paddle.

Pop for some comfy seats, mine increased my seat time drastically

Sounds like it would kinda fun.....