PFD'S VS. LIFE

The witness, and person that called 911, said the guy fell off his yak and struggled to get back in about 200 yards off the beach.  A PFD would have saved his life.

As for Lee's last post. On the money. "Getting what he deserved" was out of line.
 As for Nanook, he is correct in so many ways. BUT, I feel he has a vested interest in promoting himself and his business. I apologize that I even started this thread. My point was a simple one: SAFETY!!! I'm done and my heartfelt
condolences go out to the victims family.

I apologize that I even started this thread. My point was a simple one: SAFETY!!! I'm done and my heartfelt
condolences go out to the victims family.

No need to apologize.  There are many reasons to post up something like this.  We'll all take something away from it.

My condolences to the victim's family as well.

-Allen

There was no intent to stifle discussion or manipulate words (they spoke for themselves) regarding safety/training etc..  Safety is a critical topic to consider for both new and seasoned kayak fishermen alike and deserves revisiting when situations like this bring it to the fore front.  I just hoped we could do it with a slightly higher level of decorum and class that represented NWKA better and showed more respect to the accident victim.   I guess I had the misconception that showing some class trumps proving your point in a situation like this. 

Wasn't it Ed Viesturs who said" Getting in your yak is optional. Getting back to shore is mandatory".

Takeoffs are optional; landings are mandatory.

yes. safety practice and training are important as we all know. Wether you learn it from me or another person trained in teaching kayak safety skills doesn't matter.

I'd just prefer to see tragedy like this avoided when possible. If I can contribute to less tragedy, I will, even if I have fewer friends because of it.

On various pilot forums in which I participate, we routinely speculate and discuss small plane accidents.  It helps all of us identify those safety issues we may have forgotten or ignored or not recently practiced.  It also helps us plan our personal responses to similar situations. 

Usually, the pilot bears some or all of the responsibility for the event's outcome and we can be pretty frank with our opinions and observations.  Occasionally, we have had relatives post their disgust with us on a forum.  It is then explained that their loved one's tragedy can be used as a teaching/learning moment to hopefully prevent others from enduring the same experience.  In the end they usually get it. 

Also, most tragic accidents on the water and in the air are the result of a CHAIN of events, usually including at least one lapse of judgment.  Rarely do accidents have a single cause - even mechanical failures.  I have actually canceled flights because by the time I am ready for takeoff, a number of minor events/issues have all added up to a hinky feeling at the back of my neck. 

In the end, trust that little voice at the back of your mind.  It has been paying attention while you have been distracted.

On various pilot forums in which I participate, we routinely speculate and discuss small plane accidents.  It helps all of us identify those safety issues we may have forgotten or ignored or not recently practiced.  It also helps us plan our personal responses to similar situations. 

Usually, the pilot bears some or all of the responsibility for the event's outcome and we can be pretty frank with our opinions and observations.  Occasionally, we have had relatives post their disgust with us on a forum.  It is then explained that their loved one's tragedy can be used as a teaching/learning moment to hopefully prevent others from enduring the same experience.  In the end they usually get it. 

Also, most tragic accidents on the water and in the air are the result of a CHAIN of events, usually including at least one lapse of judgment.  Rarely do accidents have a single cause - even mechanical failures.  I have actually canceled flights because by the time I am ready for takeoff, a number of minor events/issues have all added up to a hinky feeling at the back of my neck. 

In the end, trust that little voice at the back of your mind.  It has been paying attention while you have been distracted.

Demonick, while I completely agree with using an accident as an opportunity for discussion, I think this indecent is a little different, especially in how it was first approached.

The message to take away from this tragedy is know your limits and be prepared for the worst. The man was not wearing a PFD and most likely not wearing immersion gear.

Blasting him for that is not necessary and neither is climbing back on to your soap box for the eleventy millionth time and blasting everyone with your repetitive preaching.

Was this tragic? ... Yes - Could it have been prevented? ... Yes

Guys stay safe, wear proper gear, familiarize yourself with your craft and practice self rescues in several different environments.

Do you need to be trained by captain safety? ... No - Would it hurt? ... Probably not - Will a certificate or patch or merit badge save your life if you panic? ... ABSOLUTELY NOT!

Be smart. Be safe and be prepared. Most importantly have fun. =)

Tight lines

..... PS NO COTTON ON THE WATER!!!

Demonick "blasting"  I don't get it.  He did nothing of the sort, AFAICT. 
  On a topic related to his post, I talked with a friend of mine at Vashon Chorale practice last nite, I asked him how long it had been since he flew.  He has his pilot's license, but has not flown since he moved to Vashon in 1990.  I asked him why---he said that he was making a solo flight into Kansas from Ohio, had a dicey takeoff and just managed to clear trees, found he had full flaps and de-icers on in his Cessna 4-seater, I forget the model.  It shook him pretty badly that he skipped thru his checklist and missed this,  and eventually he stopped flying due to having to fly IFR for 1/2 hour on another occasion when overtaken by weather (only VFR rated).
   I like what Demonick said about that little voice-----my wife and I have a saying "Never ignore your gut feeling, it is always right".   The unconscious mind processes about 10x faster than the left side of the brain. 

Hope you don't think I was saying Demonick was blasting him....
I was saying that yes we should talk about situations that can help us but this was not one of those situations. This was not a seasoned guy that made one or two mistakes.
Others blasted this guy .... Demonick was just talking about flying and learning from the mistakes of others.

Lets let this tread end ...

At least 10 other lives were put at risk because this guy did what he did.  Thousands of dollars to put a helicopter up in high winds.  A 16 year old girl has no father now.  This one guy, and his irresponsibility caused this.  Call Jason out for soapboxing if you want, but you are doing the same thing by putting people down because they don't view irresponsibility the same way you do and don't want to be all PC about it.  I've seen too many people die doing everything they could to stay alive and help their buddies stay alive, to listen to anyone put me down for saying what I said about someone who screwed up like this guy did.

Is it tragic and sad that it happened?  Of course it is.  But like it or not, nobody said anything that wasn't true, we just didn't say it how you'd prefer.

  On a topic related to his post, I talked with a friend of mine at Vashon Chorale practice last nite, I asked him how long it had been since he flew.  He has his pilot's license, but has not flown since he moved to Vashon in 1990.  I asked him why---he said that he was making a solo flight into Kansas from Ohio, had a dicey takeoff and just managed to clear trees, found he had full flaps and de-icers on in his Cessna 4-seater, I forget the model.  It shook him pretty badly that he skipped thru his checklist and missed this,  and eventually he stopped flying due to having to fly IFR for 1/2 hour on another occasion when overtaken by weather (only VFR rated).

Major errors.  Sounds like he made the right decision.  Just like some folks do not have the temperment for safe kayak fishing, some do not have the temperment for flying.  It is good he had the sense to self-ground.

yawn.

as long as I receive argument against proper safety training, I'll keep making my point.

If you want me to stop preaching, stop making counter productive argument.

J

I guess we disagree on what is "proper" training .....

Or I just missed the chapter where you were granted the power to decide how everyone should go about their lives .....