no wading w/o a pfd??

"A venturesome minority will always be eager to get off on their own, and no obstacle should be placed in their path; let them take risk, for God sake, let them get lost, sun burnt, stranded, drowned, eaten by bears, buried alive under avalanches-that is the right and privilege of any free American."


--Edward Abbey--

Pretty much sums up my thoughts.

Dumb drunks will still drown in the river ..... let them. Now the cops are happy that they can ticket these groups of idiots.

On a side note .... Don't be an idiot.

Funny you would say that, after being so defensive about the non-pfd wearing guy that drowned earlier this year.  Hi pot, meet Kettle.


Anyway, this measure is TEMPORARY and seems to me some sensationalist (read: media propaganda artist) got WR all worked up.

Facts here:   http://www.kingcounty.gov/exec/news/release/2011/June/~/media/exec/news/documents/2011/PFD_ordinance_fact_sheet_6_2_11.ashx

My point is that we don't need to government to safe guard our lives. It is one thing to say don't be stupid. It is another to dance on a man's grave and point a finger singing I told you so.

Millions of American die from heart disease every year from being fat and lazy and we are ok with that but if half a dozen drown we need new laws ...... Come on! Let us live our own lives!

Excuse me for jumping in.

Yes we do need some government to safeguard our lives and property. Ever heard of the Police, Fire Department or the Coast Guard? Three government agencies that are fundamental (for all their flaws) to our safety. Kayakers especially should be thankful there is a USCG with motorized lifeboats and helicopters etc. on call to save our asses on ch 16, should it be necessary.

Yes there are plenty of ineffective/counterproductive etc. laws out there but you have to look at the bigger picture IMHO.

Ok how about this statement. We do not need the government to safeguard EVERY aspect of our lives.

Do I think we need Military/Fire/USGC .... and I'll be nice and include Police. YES .... do I need to be told what side of the side walk I can travel on .... NO.

Fair enough, I'm not looking to get into a debate about the role of government.

In the document posted by Lee,
 
"Like a safety belt or a bicycle helmet, PFDs (or life jackets) save lives.The U.S. Coast Guard reports that between 85 and 90 percent of boat related drowning victims are not wearing life jackets. A recent study indicated that it is likely at least
half of drowning victims involved in boating deaths would have survived had they
worn a PFD....

What is the urgency for an emergency rule requiring life jackets?

Rivers are inherently dangerous places to play, especially in the springtime when
flows are high, swift and cold. But 2011 is bringing additional risks. An unusually
heavy amount of mountain snow is melting into King County rivers this year and a
turbulent winter flood season changed river channels and reoriented logs. King
County wanted to proactively protect public safety ahead of the next hot weather
forecast, when rivers will become an attractive, yet dangerous, destination for
swimmers, floaters and boaters.

Winter of 2010-11 experienced several serious flooding events that reshaped King
County river channels, created new undercut banks and moved and reoriented large
wood and sediment. Many new hazards are already identified and there are likely
many others of which King County and river communities remain unaware."

Looking at the warning, it seems to be based on the water levels and dangers inherent because of the winter. Just my $0.02

posted this cause, srsly wtf? we already have laws on the books and enforcement agencies to deal with most of this. personally do not believe the county has the resources to enforce all of it,  all those episodes of Cops nothwithstanding.

intent was to get you thinking, not throw rocks at each other over who is right or wrong. and btw, compared to another group that is discussing this, you are really mild and civilized.

Does this create an opportunity for the county to send a bill to a rescued person, where in the past that had not been possible?

Brian,
not really sure, didnt see that in the public postings on this decision.  doesn't mean that wasn't in the back of their minds when passing this, though.

I haven't been able to access the King County links, for some reason, but did find a blog that seems to quote the press releases and various officials. Link here- http://emeraldwateranglers.com/blog/?p=1311

It might help to remember that rescues (or worse, recoveries) are often hazardous for first responders. If the county reduces the number of rescue incidents, it will be reducing the risk to it's own personnel.

An average of 23 people perish in drowning accidents every year in King County, with nearly two-thirds occurring on open water, including rivers, lakes and Puget Sound, according to data gathered by Public Heath – Seattle & King County.

The Sheriff’s Office last month closed a one-mile section of the Cedar River due to a hazardous logjam that spanned the width of the river.

Meanwhile, the snowpack in some Cascade Range river basins is currently 200 percent of normal, which could lead to higher-than-normal and colder river flows well into the summer recreational season.

In a County study conducted last year, 61 percent of children under 12 and 98 percent of teenagers under 18 were observed not wearing PFDs when floating on the Cedar River.

“As an emergency responder to water-related emergencies on our rivers, I’ve seen first-hand how the use of PFD’s can make a difference,” said Mountain View Fire and Rescue Assistant Chief Robert Young. “With the wearing of life vests we can avoid needless tragedies.”

The proposed ordinance calls for King County to notify residents of the new requirement by posting signs at primary access points to major rivers, and to promote life vest use in partnership with regional organizations focused on drowning prevention, such as Seattle Children’s Hospital and the Statewide Drowning Prevention Network.

The proposal has the backing of the River Safety Council, the American Red Cross of King and Kitsap Counties; the Tulalip Tribes; the Washington State Parks and Recreation Commission; Sector Puget Sound of the U.S. Coast Guard; the national non-profit American Whitewater organization of whitewater enthusiasts, river conservationists, and paddling clubs; and Mountain View Fire and Rescue in Auburn, whose Swift Water Rescue Team responds to incidents along the middle Green River.

This summer, officials will evaluate the program, along with feedback from emergency first responders and the public, to determine whether changes are appropriate and whether to propose that the requirement should become permanent.

First infractions for failure to wear a PFD would carry a warning, while subsequent infractions could result in a fine of up to $86.

Based on what I've read (yeah, I think it's a good idea to check something out before jumping to conclusions), and my own experience working on rivers, it seems to me that King County is trying to be proactive and save lives. They've recognized some unique conditions this year, that are likely to catch the average Joe by surprise. At the very least, all the publicity the rule has generated will probably catch some peoples' attention and make them think twice about being casual around the rivers this summer. I know my local river has a flow about 3x what it would usually be at this date, and there is still plenty of snow in the mountains. I'll be surprised if we don't have more incidents, especially when the weather starts warming up- which it is supposed to do this weekend. I appreciate that they are planning to review it after the summer has passed, with feedback from both first responders and the public.

Finally, if this were really about making money, the county wouldn't be giving out any warnings for first offenses- they would go straight to tickets.

The sun never sets on the empire, now a nanny state.  See the progress?

It is termed, "The Tyranny of Good Intentions".  I should be allowed to be stupid, whether that means drowning drunk in an ice cold river or eating burgers and fries until my arteries clog.  And, I should pay for both, my own attempted rescue or my own healthcare.  To have others pay for my behavior gives a "greater good" rationale for ANY sort of Tyranny of Good Intentions.

I agree that a person should be able to be stupid and go out and drown themselves.  However,  most times when one does this, it puts other's lives at risk when they try to rescue you. 

How about this:  No pfd is consent not to be rescued and shows intent that you want to commit suicide and wish to be left alone (suicide is legal in the northwest, right??). Then the family pays for body recovery. No publicly funded resources are wasted then. If you are wearing one and something happens, it means you wish for emergency responders to rescue you.  This way the decision is up to the individual.

Spot on!! I like. Same with hikers who rely soley on a cell phone as a safety line. These folks hike in sandals, no water, no extra clothes or food in case of emergency. They are the ones who always say "Are we almost there yet?"and they haven't even gone a 1/4 of the way and they are trashed already.

 I am quite interested in how this emergency rule will effect the legal definition of negligence when on "major" rivers.  Is it negligent to get drunk floating the green river without a PFD on? Absolutely.  You should pay for your rescue, and more importantly, your family should have no grounds to sue the state seeking a stupid settlement with wrongful death as the base argument.  One suit like that can cost taxpayers millions!  I want to know if this rule is a legal game changer.

i dont think they'll get real revenue. You still have to process it, court too, n such. But when someone gets rescued, or the situation is risky, its a tool to an end. I look at parking ticket costs here and its a joke, they make enough revenue to cover costs, they'll never fill a real budget from that money.

I support fire and rescue, and police that do their job without the intent of just pulling in revenue. 

With that, I think that any person under the age of 18 should abide by rules set forth to keep them safe, as they have not had enough experience with life altering decisions, and common sense kind of thought process.  By the time a person reaches 19 years old and not living under a rock, I would suspect they have some knowledge for better judgement.  If not, we need to stop "saving" them from themselves.  This world is all about "saving" us from ourselves, and that takes away the though process of the individual at risk. 

We don't go around slapping bears and cougars around, why?  They'll freaking kill ya! 
We don't go around drinking diesel for fun, why?  It'll kill ya! 
We don't go starting a fist fight with the airplane flight attendant, why?  Your ass will be in jail quick if not shot by a Marshal.
We don' jump out of moving vehicles at highway speeds, why?  You'll die!
We don't go walking down the rail road tracks, let alone with headphone on, why?  An on coming train will KILL you!
We don't go wading around in big swift rivers without a PFD, let alone a freaking logical reason to be doing so, why?  It will KILL you! 

Etc...

Now, my point is that stupid people do stupid things and are all eligible for the Darwin Award.  We can't fix stupid, but possibly breed them out of existence.  Plz don't take these opportunities away from them.   

I support fire and rescue, and police that do their job without the intent of just pulling in revenue. 

With that, I think that any person under the age of 18 should abide by rules set forth to keep them safe, as they have not had enough experience with life altering decisions, and common sense kind of thought process.  By the time a person reaches 19 years old and not living under a rock, I would suspect they have some knowledge for better judgement.  If not, we need to stop "saving" them from themselves.  This world is all about "saving" us from ourselves, and that takes away the though process of the individual at risk. 

We don't go around slapping bears and cougars around, why?  They'll freaking kill ya! 
We don't go around drinking diesel for fun, why?  It'll kill ya! 
We don't go starting a fist fight with the airplane flight attendant, why?  Your ass will be in jail quick if not shot by a Marshal.
We don' jump out of moving vehicles at highway speeds, why?  You'll die!
We don't go walking down the rail road tracks, let alone with headphone on, why?  An on coming train will KILL you!
We don't go wading around in big swift rivers without a PFD, let alone a freaking logical reason to be doing so, why?  It will KILL you! 

Etc...

Now, my point is that stupid people do stupid things and are all eligible for the Darwin Award.  We can't fix stupid, but possibly breed them out of existence.  Plz don't take these opportunities away from them.   

+1