propel vs mirage

Some of us dinosaurs actually still use (and prefer) a 30.06.

I've got a two way debate going.  First, pedal vs. paddle, then Mirage vs. Propel (most likely the Revo 13 vs Slayer).  I can see myself both in weed beds and out trolling, and with a little more experience making a trip over to the salt.  There are equally difficult decisions if the conclusion is paddle:  BGII, Predator, Tarpon, Thresher...

30.06...that is an easy answer.  Unless I am using the 45-70...or the 6.5X55.

What was the question again?

I am a cyclist as well, and use clips all the time on my road bikes.   I got rid of the clips on my mountain bikes though, as I probably plant a foot far more than I really should, and I like to be able to get off and on  the pedals quickly.  Mind you I can get out of my clips pretty quickly, so it's not the speed I'd be most worried about.   I think your cleats, shoes, and pedal (SPD or Crank Bro's) would not hold up so well to frequent salt, and THEN would they release as expected or hang you under the kayak....  NOT SO SURE> 

    So - I'd have to say no to cycle shoes and clips as well, I do like the straps on my hobie drive, I keep them a bit loose - more for keeping my feet aligned while I do all else - like fishing and chewing gum at that same time - less so for the backstroke power.  I have the hobie drive fins tuned up pretty tight as it is - not sure of the added benefit of the back-stroke power, but may try snugging them up next time I am out to see if I can make better time against the tide.

One problem with Hobie drive - I am constantly tempted to land with my drive down, but locked flat... and especially off Seward and PWS some of the landings have sharper rocks.... I am sure it's not good for it to scrape in at all.   I don't think that temptation is there with the propel, as I understand it you MUST lock it up to come in.

-----   .348 WIN - I have my dad's old 1935 Winchester Model 71 lever action is amazing condition.   The older lever action my great grandfather used to take deer was in the .32-40 and finding ammo is hard.  Not sure I trust it any more (or maybe just dont want to risk it)  - so hasn't been fired in years.  It probably dates to 1896 or so.   Gotta love classic lever actions.  ----

After some time in my native I can say I have no regrets. everything I read is true, +'s and -'s. Turning radius was the big down fall on the native but is offset with reverse. The layouts are different and would be the biggest factor in someone juggling which to go with. sit in both and move around, get some items off the shelf in the store and see where and how you can set them in the yak. Biggest thing... get one or the other and get out there.

I am a cyclist as well, and use clips all the time on my road bikes.   I got rid of the clips on my mountain bikes though, as I probably plant a foot far more than I really should, and I like to be able to get off and on  the pedals quickly.  Mind you I can get out of my clips pretty quickly, so it's not the speed I'd be most worried about.   I think your cleats, shoes, and pedal (SPD or Crank Bro's) would not hold up so well to frequent salt, and THEN would they release as expected or hang you under the kayak....  NOT SO SURE> 

    So - I'd have to say no to cycle shoes and clips as well, I do like the straps on my hobie drive, I keep them a bit loose - more for keeping my feet aligned while I do all else - like fishing and chewing gum at that same time - less so for the backstroke power.  I have the hobie drive fins tuned up pretty tight as it is - not sure of the added benefit of the back-stroke power, but may try snugging them up next time I am out to see if I can make better time against the tide.

I have a Hobie Revolution.  I also have a recumbent bicycle, which I pedal in a position which is pretty similar to the pedaling position in a Mirage Drive or Propel Drive kayak.  When biking, I clip into the pedals and spin, which involves a certain amount of pulling up on one pedal as I push down on the other pedal.  When pedaling my Revolution, I haven't had any urge to pull up on one pedal while pushing with the other, even though that would probably increase the power of my pedal strokes.  I find the foot straps on the Mirage Drive pedals to be inconvenient and not at all helpful, and removed them.  I haven't tried a Propel Drive kayak, but would be curious to see if I would pull up on the pedals like I do on my bike.

I am a cyclist as well, and use clips all the time on my road bikes.   I got rid of the clips on my mountain bikes though, as I probably plant a foot far more than I really should, and I like to be able to get off and on  the pedals quickly.  Mind you I can get out of my clips pretty quickly, so it's not the speed I'd be most worried about.   I think your cleats, shoes, and pedal (SPD or Crank Bro's) would not hold up so well to frequent salt, and THEN would they release as expected or hang you under the kayak....  NOT SO SURE> 

    So - I'd have to say no to cycle shoes and clips as well, I do like the straps on my hobie drive, I keep them a bit loose - more for keeping my feet aligned while I do all else - like fishing and chewing gum at that same time - less so for the backstroke power.  I have the hobie drive fins tuned up pretty tight as it is - not sure of the added benefit of the back-stroke power, but may try snugging them up next time I am out to see if I can make better time against the tide.

I have a Hobie Revolution.  I also have a recumbent bicycle, which I pedal in a position which is pretty similar to the pedaling position in a Mirage Drive or Propel Drive kayak.  When biking, I clip into the pedals and spin, which involves a certain amount of pulling up on one pedal as I push down on the other pedal.  When pedaling my Revolution, I haven't had any urge to pull up on one pedal while pushing with the other, even though that would probably increase the power of my pedal strokes.  I find the foot straps on the Mirage Drive pedals to be inconvenient and not at all helpful, and removed them.  I haven't tried a Propel Drive kayak, but would be curious to see if I would pull up on the pedals like I do on my bike.

not sure it would help, on a bike you have your weight and the bike seat that you are using to brace against. With the native you have the seat back which braces you for the down stroke. Think of a 3 wheel laydown bike. I did notice as I tired I could slide forward or back changing my angle to the drive, gave the feeling of using different muscles extending how long I could pedal without taking a brake.

I have ridden a recumbent bike for many years and find I also get the additional power via pulling up with my back leg as I did with my conventional bikes.  Years of road, mountain and recumbent biking with SPD pedals has me naturally swinging my heals out and disengaging from the pedals without issue.
   I can see where salt water could take it's toll on equipment though.  Just another thing to rinse off with fresh water at the end of the day.  No problem when fishing fresh water lakes then.
Still wondering if the Propel pedals are replaceable and threaded with 9/16 x 20 tpi or 1/2" x 20 TPI or a size where only their pedals can be used.

I have ridden a recumbent bike for many years

Funny, what are the chances of finding 3 recumbent riders in one kayak thread?  I've been riding laid back for the last 7 years.  Part of the reason I am looking harder at the Slayer Propel is a cycling action that is more "natural" to me--at least in theory.  I plan on testing both boats in the next couple of weeks to compare.  One distinct advantage I can see with the Slayer is gearing up--it seems the Slayer track system has a lot more options for mounting gear than either the Revo or the Outback.

On pedals--I can't see the eggbeaters I favor having a lot of problem with the salt, at least not problems that aren't easily solved with maintenance.

Years of road, mountain and recumbent biking with SPD pedals has me naturally swinging my heals out and disengaging from the pedals without issue.

SPD pedals certainly increase your pedaling power and security when you're biking, and SPD pedals handle the (fresh) water, road grit, and other abuse of bicycling just fine. And like Craig, disengaging from SPD pedals when biking is second nature for me.  However, before I used SPD pedals out on a lake or the ocean, I'd want to try flipping my kayak repeatedly with my feet clipped into the pedals, to be sure that when my kayak flipped it didn't twist my legs in a manner which made it hard to disengage from the pedals.  It would really suck to be stuck underwater because my feet didn't release from the pedals, particularly if I was getting churned in surf.

Here's a Propel versus Mirage issue: which will permit you to stay right-side-up while side-surfing.  A common pedal kayak mishap occurs when a kayaker is pedaling into shore through surf with the drive and rudder down, starts to catch a wave, the kayak's nose turns to the side, and the Mirage Drive fins or the Propel Drive propeller assembly catch water sideways and instantly flip the kayak towards the shore.  If this starts to happen, in a Mirage Drive kayak you can increase your chances of side-surfing towards shore upright on the pile, even without a paddle in your hands, by instantly pushing one pedal all the way forward so the Mirage Drive fins go up against the bottom of the kayak.  On a Propel Drive, you can't do that, so it's hard to avoid a visit to Sponge Bob Square Pants.