Suiting up for Ocean Kayak Fishing

The safety situation in kayaking is sounding very similar to that in small plane general aviation (GA).  The majority of GA accidents are due to poor pilot judgment and/or error(s).  Also the majority of GA accidents are due to a series of errors, an error train, rather than just a single causative error.  Seems the same on the water in a kayak.  Very sad.

Thanks P²! 

I understand your liability concerns 'nook.

So there, the gauntlet is throw down. But I ain't the stuntman this time as the water is too warm here.

East coaster Ric Burnley already accepted that challenge.

http://www.kayakanglermag.com/features/915-video-kayak-angler-cold-water-outerwear-test-.html

That was a good vid, BUT conspicuously missing are the NEOPRENE waders. I think I might have mentioned once or trice that breathables don't work the same way.

Also it was really surprising that those huge, baggy waders took on water and then he got cold.
Well, maybe not.

 

Neoprene waders don't fit as tightly as the breathables, making seepage and leakage more likely.

Hmmmmm,  maybe its an east coast thing, but most folk wear their neoprene waders a little tighter than their breathables. But that's right, your not from Texas.

(sorry, Lyle seems to sneak in when you least expect him)

Some writer I am. My internet posts lack precision and focus.

Fishesfromtupperware, would you agree if I'd said the tops of neoprene waders aren't worn as tightly against the chest? Do you Texas boys cinch those stretchy suspenders up tight, or leave some play?

Neoprene is a much thicker material. Doesn't it tend to bunch if you want a tighter wading belt 'seal?'

Maybe the neoprenes I've used were just too cheap, shoddy and poorly fitting. 

When you go into the water in breathable waders, my experience is the more-flexible fabric conforms to the body. That's what I meant by more tightly fitting. If you're going to wear neoprene waders that cling like Saran wrap, you might as well wear a wetsuit.

I'm glad you brought it up. I've yet to see video of a kayaker testing neoprenes. What can I tell you? Ric, a man of the southeast (he lives in VA) used the most common wader getup for his region. Guess they aren't much into rubber out there these days. 

Fishesfromtupperware, would you agree if I'd said the tops of neoprene waders aren't worn as tightly against the chest? Do you Texas boys cinch those stretchy suspenders up tight, or leave some play?

Maybe the neoprenes I've used were just too cheap, shoddy and poorly fitting. 

You know, I'm really not trying to be one of those forum denizens that argue over every little word,,,but   

My FrogTogg neoprene stocking foot chest waders fit more like a loose wet suit than waders. I paid $40 for them on a black Friday sale at Fisherman's Marine.
 They come up over my shoulders and fasten with velcro.  Personally, I fill them well enuf not to require any belt at all (but there is a fair bit of me).  Even with just a splash top, that combo will keep most water out playing in cold surf. Once out of the water, any water that does get in sloshes a bit in the "stocking", but it a bit more evenly distributed while swimming.

When you go into the water in breathable waders, my experience is the more-flexible fabric conforms to the body. That's what I meant by more tightly fitting. If you're going to wear neoprene waders that cling like Saran wrap, you might as well wear a wetsuit.

Neoprene does pretty much the same thing, not quite like saran wrap, but it definitely compresses as the air inside is forced up and out the top. Until its overtopped (with no drytop on) neoprene waders act like a drysuit. At that point (open overtopping) I guess you are wearing a wet suit of sorts and with the added advantage that the water inside can warm up (as long as you don't get too much circulation). Finally, as the former asshat ambassador pointed out, that layer of water and neoprene is a whole lot better insulation than wet under clothes inside of over topped, punctured or otherwise flooded goretex.*




* (insert your favorite breathable material here)

And oh, that's right come to think of it,
I'm not from Texas either.
 


Warmly,
Wali

(who's from Los Angeles, New Orleans, Charlotte Amalie, Portland, and currently Jacksonville)

the difference being with waders it's like you are starting off with a torn dry suit, or with a disadvantage. in order for a dry suit to fail, you have to tear a gaping hole in it first. something I've personally never seen.

also when your skin stays dry you don't have as much evaporative cooling, which is always what gets me frigid. Wet neo + wind is cold as a witches titty. also it takes a bit to warm that water between the neo and skin, which does nothing to stop the gasp reflex when you hit the cold water...which is what kills most people. That and heart attacks from the shock of cold water. I prefer rubberized fleece over a neo wet suit as it doesn't allow the wind to cut through.

will any of these options keep a dummy from dying? No. the wader thing may be adequate for a lot of situations, but weighing the pros and cons for worst case stuff I personally don't believe they are the "safest" option.

Nanook----high marks and a cheer for the safety nerd!!  Nothing nerdy about it, safety must come first---always.   I have personally seen things go bad on the water, it happens in about one heartbeat, and survival has nothing to do with luck----it has to do with being prepared.   The video was instructive but deceptive, the guy  was young and in shape, the water was cold but calm, no waves and little wind.  Imagine going over, face-first, into cold water with 1-3foot wind waves and 20 knots blowing your kayak away from you.  And no kayak with video filmer standing by a few feet away. First you gotta recover from the shock, that takes a minute or two, then you've go to get to your boat, possible have to right it, and get aboard.  I assume you hung onto your paddle??  Most cold-water drowning result from the sudden gasp that is reflexive.

1.      Even with your head above water, a splash of cold water in your face from a boat’s wake as it cruises by you can cause you to involuntarily inhale water, which is a killer.  Not swallowing in down your throat into your stomach but inhaling it into your lungs.  This is the “gasp reflex.”
2.      In some people, the reaction doesn’t get that far into their bodies.  They hit the cold water and, as soon as it touches the back of their throat, it closes up.  The spasm stops the water from getting into the body, which is the biological intent, but it also stops air from getting to the lungs.  The person bobs back to the surface (their lungs are full of air) and they suffocate in the open water, unable to breathe due to a blocked air passageway.  This is what is now called “dry drowning.”  There is no water in the lungs.  Nor is there any oxygen.  I’ve seen a BoatUS report that stated that 15-20% of all drowning are “dry drownings.”
3.      When the difference between your body temperature and the water temperature is greater than 30-degrees, the chance of a heart attack from the sudden immersion goes up dramatically.
4.      Even something as simple as a racing heart from shock and fear can create hyperventilating on the part of the victim.  Dizziness followed by unconsciousness results as the ratio of oxygen/carbon dioxide changes in the victim’s blood system.