Any ideas for sub zero modifications? Kicking around some ideas...

Ok.  After planning to go out today, 20knts and 3 ft forecast which is normally doable I canceled because they were followed by the words "HEAVY freezing spray". 4 deg in Soldotna.  15 in Homer.

I'd like to extend my season by another month maybe on both ends.  In order to do that, i would have to be able to fish from a kayak in temps of 15 degrees or so.  I figure other than me, the weak link will be the rudder mechanism and the above water sections of the mirage drives.  So...

I'm thinking a dodger for the hobbies with electrical forced air heating into the dodger and if possible into my kayak to keep everything unfrozen.  I don't need it to be 75 deg and shorts warm.  I need it to be slightly above freezing temps for saltwater.  There's got to be a better way of heating it.  If the dodger could cover me, I would generate enough heat. Maybe an insulated tube to exhale into the dodger to recycle heat.  Haha.  Look like some alien fishing.   I was actually thinking a few hot water bottles on the inside of the kayak insulated from the cold hull would warm the inside enough for a few hours to keep from freezing.  Maybe that's all I need???

I ice fish a lot so I'm not concerned about me or my gear. I'm probably the weak link but me failing or more accurately about to fail to means I just call it a day.  My kayak calls it a day prematurely and that definitely could be an issue in the conditions I am talking about!

Any thoughts, suggestions?  What would concern you about a trip in 15 deg weather mechanically speaking? Experiences?  Just too stupid to consider?

I've done a lot of whitewater kayaking in the winter.  You can be quite comfortable kayaking when there is deep snow on the shore and chunks of ice floating down the river, as long as you wear enough layers of insulation under your dry suit and have a good pair of dry gloves.  However, in my experience there is a big difference between river kayaking when the air temperature is a few degrees above freezing, and river kayaking when the air temperature is a few degrees below freezing, because when the air temperature drops below freezing ice starts forming on your gear, which looks neat but is a pain in the ass.  This may be less of a problem in the ocean.

Dry gloves make cold water and cold weather kayaking much more comfortable.  One kind of dry gloves are latex gloves which have a wrist gasket.  You wear knit polypro or acrylic glove liners inside them for insulation.  For many years I used OS Systems dry gloves, but OS Systems quit making dry gloves a year or so ago.  As a result, I have started using Viking "Good Grip" dry gloves, which I don't like as well.  Another kind of dry gloves attach to your dry suit with a ring system.  I use a SI Tech dry glove system when snorkeling and spearfishing for pike, and sometimes use the same dry suit when rod fishing in cold weather.    Unfortunately, dry gloves and hooks are a bad combination.  One advantage of a ring system is that you can use cheap hardware store waterproof gloves with the rings, so it isn't as expensive if fish teeth or your gear poke holes in the gloves.  Another advantage of a ring system is that you can take the gloves on and off pretty easily when you need to handle hooks.

I get extra-large dry gloves so I can wear thick liners, and so I don't need to stretch the gloves very much in order to hold onto my paddle.  Knit glove liners are better than sewn glove liners because they don't have seams, which can grind into spots like the base of your thumb.  A good cheap source of liners are the white knit acrylic work gloves which are available for a couple bucks a pair at Home Depot and similar stores.  Acrylic dries out almost as fast as polypro.  Don't use cotton liners!  Cotton becomes very cold when it's wet, and it takes forever to dry out.

Sit-inside kayaks are much warmer than sit-on-top kayaks in cold weather, because the spray skirt protects you from cold water and wind from the waist down.

Here are a couple pictures of cold weather kayaking from an early-May four-day 116-mile kayak trip on the Middle Fork of the Salmon River in Idaho, launching on Marsh Creek.  We paddled through snow for the first day and a half of the trip, and the weather was cool and inclement throughout the trip, but our gear kept us quite comfortable.  We wore the same clothing on and off the river, because our dry suits kept our clothing dry.

Launching where the highway crosses Marsh Creek:



A snow squall on the river:



A block of snow at the bottom of an avalanche chute:



Lunch the first day:



Our first camp:



An avalanche chute on the second day.

It's confirmed now

You are just plain o' nuts.     

What is the water temp in Kachamek Bay now??? About 35???

Good luck out there and dont forget your woolies.

Pete...that looks amazing. Thanks for sharing.

My NRS dry gloves are great. Forget the model, but I think it's their only dry offering.

Winter pics are awesome! I don't anticipate needing gloves down to about 15 deg. I never use them even ice fishing. Have a pretty strong tolerance for that. Only time I needed them kayaking has been when I've had a metal paddle pole in hand.  But I can see potentially using some during the hours of inactivity.

What about rudder lines and the drives?  No issues ya think?


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You may want to check with Hobie about the strength of the plastic used in their hulls at those temps.  I'd imagine that at some point, the hull material looses all of it's flex and may be prone to cracking.    

-Spot-

I've never used a kayak with a rudder in below-freezing conditions.  I'd be concerned that ice would build up on the rudder lines and in the holes for the rudder lines and lock the rudder in place, and that the rudder control wouldn't provide enough leverage to flake the ice off the lines or dislodge the ice in the holes.  Ice might also prevent you from raising the rudder.  If the rudder got locked in place and couldn't be raised, you could start steering the kayak with your paddle, but the rudder would make it harder to turn the kayak. 

I've also never used a kayak with a Mirage Drive in below-freezing conditions.  I suspect that as you pedal the kayak, any sheet of ice that forms on the above-water mechanism of the drive will easily flake off. 

Another problem you might have in cold weather is that ice could form in the scupper holes of your kayak and prevent water from draining out of the rear storage area, and a block of ice could start developing in the storage area.

I suggest you do an experiment: in below-freezing conditions, put your Hobie in the water and tie it to a dock.  See if ice forms on the rudder lines and in the holes for the rudder lines, and see if you can dislodge that ice by turning the rudder control.  Also see if the ice prevents you from raising the rudder.  Let ice build up for a while on the Mirage Drive, and see how hard or easy it is to dislodge that ice by pushing on the pedals.  See if ice forms in the scupper holes.  I look forward to a report on this experiment, with pictures!

I don't think that you would have any problems with the mirage drive if you keep it moving.  Even if you did you could take the drive out and dunk it in the water and it would help melt the ice.  Just like getting ice off your rod eyes when they freeze.  Your rudder cables?  That might be a different story.

Thanks for all the input!!!! I will try a test hopefully soon.  I'll stay close to shore and monitor closely. I can see the rudder freezing and ending up doing hundreds of circles to get 50 yards back to shore with a paddle.  Lol.

Rudder lines I think might be ok with some type of arctic grease or a good water repellent for the lines.  Hot water bottles in hull insulated from bottom might be enough. Especially if placed in back. I also fish close enough to vehicle in this spot I can switch out every few hours.

I'll send or post on hobie about cold weather plastic tolerance. Ya it would suck to hit a swell and hear this "CRACK!!" 

Hmmm....forecasting a heat wave to 32 deg this weekend.  Cold weather testing may have to wait...not so much the fishing.


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Turns out I've asked this...

I think they are saying it's ok....

http://www.hobiecat.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=38404



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My personal pages...I'm not a guide.

What's the freezing point of salt water anyways?

-Allen

What's the freezing point of salt water anyways?

-Allen

Depends on actual salinity of course, but it's around -2C/28.5F. 

I went out in the Kenai last February for about 6 hours.  The only problem I had was keeping myself warm.  Everything on the outback worked fine.

I went out in the Kenai last February for about 6 hours.  The only problem I had was keeping myself warm.  Everything on the outback worked fine.

How cold was it?

But forecasted to be 32 this weekend. Can't get the cold to cooperate....


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My personal pages...I'm not a guide.