Which Hobie?

Some questions...

Does anyone know what the cockpit lengths are on the Outback, Revo 13 and Adventure?  I can't find any info on their site.

Also, why are the seats so bad on these kayaks?  Other mfrs pay alot of attention to seat comfort and in fact hobie did with the PA's...but year after year they use the same crappy seats on these 3 kayaks and it makes my back hurt just thinking about it.  Does anyone know if they ever plan to change the seat design?

I can't help ya on the cockpit dimensions but what has always worked like a dream for me was having a self-inflating seat pad on the factory seat.  Even when the seat pad had tons of holes in it and couldn't hold air at all the soft foam in it was what really did the trick for me.  YMMV though - everyone's back is different.

That's a good idea.  I almost wonder if it'd be possible to custom fit one of those fancy seats from a Jackson onto a hobie outback or revo without completely changing the dynamics of it. 

The dimension you probably want is not the cockpit length, but the following distances:

(a) For tall people, the distance from the seat back (when the seat is installed in the rear pair of holes) to a pedal (when the pedal shaft is set on 7 and the pedal is all the way forward).  If you are so tall that your knees are still bent with the seat, pedal shafts, and pedal in this position, you may feel cramped in the kayak.

(b) For short people, the distance from the seat back (when the seat is installed in the front pair of holes) to a pedal (when the pedal shaft is set on 1 and the pedal is all the way forward).  If you are so short that you can't push the pedal almost all the way forward with the seat, pedal shafts, and pedal in this position, the kayak may be a bit big for you.

Yeah, that's it.  Is there a name for that?

Yeah, that's it.  Is there a name for that?

For recumbent bikes they call that your X-seam.  You measure that by sitting up with you back firmly against a wall with your legs straight out in front of you flat on the floor.  Measure from the wall to your heels.

For lack of a better term, let's call it a cockpit.  I know the adventure has a longer one than the revo and outback.  Which is what I like about the adventure.  I want to compare the dimension of the cockpit on each of the 3 "big water" hobie kayaks to the one on the slayer propel 13.

http://www.nativewatercraft.com/boat.cfm?id=52

I could have easily demo'd that kayak when I was in Florida.  I have no idea why I didn't.  It very well may be what I'm after...a longer outback-like kayak with a comfortable seat.  It's the same width as the outback (33") and you can stand on it.  You can stand on the outback, but it's verrrry precarious.  I love the idea of reverse, too.  I'm starting to get sweet on it bros!  But a cockpit equal to or shorter than my outback will nip it in the bud.

I hope that boat has a better rudder than the one I demo'd at Lake Sammamish last summer.  I forget the model but it was a Native with the Propel drive.  It was a barge, and the rudder especially was terrible.  Highly non-linear response.  Nothing, nothing, nothing, maybe starting to turn a bit, HOLY SHIT HARD TURN.  Basically a huge dead zone of very slow or no response at all, then big response.

You sure you weren't on a Hobie PA12?

I have an Outback, but for a new kayak I would strongly recommend an Adventure.

Outback is OK. It is stable like a barge and forgives crazy things. I haven't tried standing in it yet, but it is on my to-do list. I've been in relatively kayak-wise bad weather in the sound and felt completely OK. But it is slow. You will top at 4 kts on flat water no matter how hard you pedal. Once I was able to push it to 4.5-4.6 kts, but I could keep that cadence for about 2 minutes only. You can add a sail and outriggers to an Adventure at a later time converting it into a very fast sailing kayak. You can do that for Outback too, and I'm going to do it this year, but it won't be as good as Adventure.

If you are from Seattle area you may want to talk to Hobie Cats Northwest. They have both Adventure and Adventure Island 2013 year models with a good discount and as far as I know there are no differences between 2013 and 2014 models for Adventure.

Some questions...

Does anyone know what the cockpit lengths are on the Outback, Revo 13 and Adventure?  I can't find any info on their site.

Also, why are the seats so bad on these kayaks?  Other mfrs pay alot of attention to seat comfort and in fact hobie did with the PA's...but year after year they use the same crappy seats on these 3 kayaks and it makes my back hurt just thinking about it.  Does anyone know if they ever plan to change the seat design?

I can't help ya on the cockpit dimensions but what has always worked like a dream for me was having a self-inflating seat pad on the factory seat.  Even when the seat pad had tons of holes in it and couldn't hold air at all the soft foam in it was what really did the trick for me.  YMMV though - everyone's back is different.

The biggest challenge for me with their seats is lack of shoulders support. It isn't required when you are paddling, because you shoulders are participated in paddling, but when you are pedaling your shoulders have no support and after a couple of hours on the water I feel that I'm near to have cramps in my belly press. I want to come up with a PVC construction behind my back to extend the height and firmness on the back of the seat.

For lack of a better term, let's call it a cockpit.  I know the adventure has a longer one than the revo and outback.  Which is what I like about the adventure.  I want to compare the dimension of the cockpit on each of the 3 "big water" hobie kayaks to the one on the slayer propel 13.

http://www.nativewatercraft.com/boat.cfm?id=52

I could have easily demo'd that kayak when I was in Florida.  I have no idea why I didn't.  It very well may be what I'm after...a longer outback-like kayak with a comfortable seat.  It's the same width as the outback (33") and you can stand on it.  You can stand on the outback, but it's verrrry precarious.  I love the idea of reverse, too.  I'm starting to get sweet on it bros!  But a cockpit equal to or shorter than my outback will nip it in the bud.

Wow...! That is interesting!

The biggest challenge for me with their seats is lack of shoulders support. It isn't required when you are paddling, because you shoulders are participated in paddling, but when you are pedaling your shoulders have no support and after a couple of hours on the water I feel that I'm near to have cramps in my belly press. I want to come up with a PVC construction behind my back to extend the height and firmness on the back of the seat.

that is a very good point.  It is a strain on the abs.  I kind of rationalize it as a plus because I'm working out my legs and abs.  Yet, this fat roll persists!

Large concrete structure that holds back water you Rory!!! Stop making me want more kayaks!!! I blame you... And the devil.

... The biggest challenge for me with their seats is lack of shoulders support. It isn't required when you are paddling, because you shoulders are participated in paddling, but when you are pedaling your shoulders have no support and after a couple of hours on the water I feel that I'm near to have cramps in my belly press. I want to come up with a PVC construction behind my back to extend the height and firmness on the back of the seat.

Try cinching your straps to pull the back more upright. This will help keep your center of gravity over your core. Cinch them more than you think will be comfortable. You can always change the pedal position.

Before I cinched my straps I bought a high end after market seat, a GTS Elite or Expedition, and when I got it the design did not differ from the stock Revo13 seat in the ways I had hoped. Same height, same overall width. I sold the GTS unused.

I also added a butt pad - http://www.austinkayak.com/products/1241/Hobie-Mirage-Inflatable-Seat-Pad-i-Comfort.html - went with the Hobie i-Comfort. It installs right on the seat like the stock pad so I can't ever forget it. I put mine under the stock pad.

I received a Skwoosh angler seat as a gift and modified it to fit my Outback and Revo. ( I poked holes and moved over the twist locks). I like it because it has two straps going to the back. It has great back support and even comes with an adjustable lumbar pad. I also over tighten the backrest forward at the start of the day.

I stole this seat from my wife a couple of years back after my (relatively young) back was getting sore after fishing for more than a few hours:

http://www.amazon.com/Stability-Cushion-Diameter-Balance-Included/dp/B007LX6MPG/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1393090185&sr=8-6&keywords=air+seat+cushion

Now I can stay out for a MUCH longer period of time.

Fred "True" Trujillo