New Boat Arrived. Quite a Disappointment.

Well, my '15 Jackson Cuda 14 arrived.   Being my first yak, and having researched the heck out of this forum as well as dozens of other websites before taking the plunge I was understandably excited for it to show up.

My first pang of trepidation came before I even unwrapped it, when I saw the shipping label on the outside wrapper that included the word "BLEM" in the product description line.  The second blow came after I unwrapped it I found that it did not have the rudder that I'd ordered.

I then found a spot of orange on the port side bow that is a bit of other yak coloring that probably is the result of a casting process wherein the mold wasn't sufficiently cleaned out before my boat was molded.  Next I found a decent sized scratch in the port side gunnel aft of the seat.  The logos are also fuzzy, and not the typical sharp and clear logos that I've seen on every other Jackson boat.   

When I inspected the HIN I found what I initially thought was some kind of burn mark where the hull had been partially melted.  And finally, when I rolled the boat to check the bottom I found that the hull was deformed laterally underneath the aft cargo area.  It appears the deformation was likely caused by either dunnage that the kayak rode on, or a shipping strap that held the kayak down.  I'm thinking the deformation will come out with a bit of heat.

I photographed all the problem areas, and after loading the pics onto my computer to email to the vendor I found that the melted area next to the HIN is actually a 'brand' with the word "BLEM" in the middle of the brand. 

I called the vendor to let him know about the problems, and I have to say he stepped up.  To expedite the shipment, he had the boat drop shipped directly from the Jackson factory instead of the usual method of having the yak shipped to them before forwarding it to the customer.  I’m speculating that his is why the rudder wasn’t installed.  I’ve read on the web that Jackson isn’t installing rudders at the factory this year, and is having the dealers do this work.  I suspect it’s to try and avoid shipping damage to the exposed rudders, but this is pure speculation on my part.   The vendor has been quite helpful and responsive throughout the order/status/shipping process, and prior to hanging up with him that first time he'd already overnighted me a rudder kit. 

With the boat arriving on Friday, the vendor wasn't able to contact Jackson as they were closed for the weekend.  He said he would call me Monday after he talks with them Monday, and assured me he will make it right.  He did call me today, but he had no news.  His Jackson sales rep was not in a position to look into the problem, but he assured me he’d have some news for me Tuesday. 

So what is a blemish model, or a factory second boat, worth?  What should I reasonably expect in terms of a discount?   I didn't want or order a blemish model, I ordered it new before Jackson even began manufacturing the 2015 models, and I expected a brand new/pristine boat.  And what is a "blemished" model worth when I decide to upgrade and want to sell it?  Is a boat branded as a blemished model something that will not hold value like an unblemished model?   Would you keep the boat if this happened to you, or ship it back in favor of a non-blemished model?

I have not called Jackson yet as I want to give the vendor the chance to make things right.  I did not get upset with the vendor, or yell and scream my discontent at him.  As I said, he has been quite helpful.  I've intentionally avoided identifying him in this post as he deserves the opportunity to make things right.  Once the issues have been resolved, good, bad, or indifferent, I’ll identify the vendor and let everyone know the resolution. 

Wow! First of all I am shocked that a company like Jackson would ever let a boat like that ship without the customer at least knowing about the boat's problem. Second I'm sorry that this happened to you. I've not dealt with Jackson kayaks before but I can relay the results of a similar experience with Wilderness Systems.

Several years ago I order an olive colored 10' Pamlico from Wilderness Systems. Took it out a couple times with no issues. A friend and I were paddling in the Choctawhatchee River when I noticed a lot of water in the kayak. We went ashore and flipped the boat and found a pinky nail sized area of plastic in the hull that was cellophane thick and had a small puncture in it. We dried and patched it with some duct tape. I contacted Wilderness Systems next day and email them photos. I told them it was easily patch-able and otherwise the boat was superb. Later that day they called me and told me to cut out the serial # and they would send me a new boat. I told them that wasn't necessary but they insisted they I get the product I ordered and that it be perfect. A week later I had I got my new boat or two boats for the price of one.

If I were you I'd ask for a serious discount, if you want to keep it, since it seems that most of the boats problems are cosmetic (other than not installing the rudder which the vendor should of been aware that Jackson wasn't). Shipping a kayak is no small effort and if they want to ship you a new boat and get their old one back they should be responsible for all of that not you.

The main thing is you need to love your boat and have no misgivings about it. You spent your hard earned cash on it and you'll doubtless put in more time and money customizing it. If you don't love it or have a bad feeling about this particular one I see no reason to keep it. On the other hand you can make the most of a bad situation and negotiate a steep discount and use the extra cash to upgrade your fishfinder, buy a new rod/reel, or plan a big fishing.

Best of luck to you!

Performance wise, the greatest offense sounds like the distortion in the hull from the shipping.  Pretty big to overlook that offense!  Since you already have the boat in hand, perhaps you could accept a cosmetic blemish of the color spot and even the BLEM burn on the HID, maybe even the fuzzy graphics (you could put your own stickers over them).  To accept ALL of those items on a boat that you purchased brand new (and not at a discount)...I wouldn't accept that if I were in your position.  If I was a customer service rep, you would get a 2015 boat from a local vendor (or at least an old stock 2014) with rudder installed and Jackson would take that damaged/BLEM boat back from you.  Let us know how this unfolds -- sorry to hear of your disappointment.

Wow! First of all I am shocked that a company like Jackson would ever let a boat like that ship without the customer at least knowing about the boat's problem. Second I'm sorry that this happened to you. I've not dealt with Jackson kayaks before but I can relay the results of a similar experience with Wilderness Systems.

Several years ago I order an olive colored 10' Pamlico from Wilderness Systems. Took it out a couple times with no issues. A friend and I were paddling in the Choctawhatchee River when I noticed a lot of water in the kayak. We went ashore and flipped the boat and found a pinky nail sized area of plastic in the hull that was cellophane thick and had a small puncture in it. We dried and patched it with some duct tape. I contacted Wilderness Systems next day and email them photos. I told them it was easily patch-able and otherwise the boat was superb. Later that day they called me and told me to cut out the serial # and they would send me a new boat. I told them that wasn't necessary but they insisted they I get the product I ordered and that it be perfect. A week later I had I got my new boat or two boats for the price of one.

If I were you I'd ask for a serious discount, if you want to keep it, since it seems that most of the boats problems are cosmetic (other than not installing the rudder which the vendor should of been aware that Jackson wasn't). Shipping a kayak is no small effort and if they want to ship you a new boat and get their old one back they should be responsible for all of that not you.

The main thing is you need to love your boat and have no misgivings about it. You spent your hard earned cash on it and you'll doubtless put in more time and money customizing it. If you don't love it or have a bad feeling about this particular one I see no reason to keep it. On the other hand you can make the most of a bad situation and negotiate a steep discount and use the extra cash to upgrade your fishfinder, buy a new rod/reel, or plan a big fishing.

Best of luck to you!

Thanks Upland.  Appreciate the story and well-wishes.   

I too was quite shocked since everything I read and learned about Jackson was that they were at the top of the food chain with regard to quality and customer service.   Mistakes happen to everyone though, and Jackson is no exception.   I am fine with the boat being a blem model insofar as usability goes, I was just shocked when it arrived as I wasn't expecting it.  Especially for the price.  The '15 models went up in price, so it wasn't cheap.  And if I want to upgrade to something else in a year to two, I'd like to be able to get value out of it if I decide to sell it.  This is the reason I posted the thread.   To get some kind of idea from the experts here on what sort of discount is reasonable.  I can always take the hard line and reverse charges and tell them to come get the boat, but I don't think that's necessary at this point.  I have faith the dealer and/or Jackson will make things right, and a great deal of my motivation for remaining open to civil discussion is exactly what you said.... I do not want to have any misgivings about the boat, and have regrets every time I look at it or load it up to head fishing.   

Performance wise, the greatest offense sounds like the distortion in the hull from the shipping.  Pretty big to overlook that offense!  Since you already have the boat in hand, perhaps you could accept a cosmetic blemish of the color spot and even the BLEM burn on the HID, maybe even the fuzzy graphics (you could put your own stickers over them).  To accept ALL of those items on a boat that you purchased brand new (and not at a discount)...I wouldn't accept that if I were in your position.  If I was a customer service rep, you would get a 2015 boat from a local vendor (or at least an old stock 2014) with rudder installed and Jackson would take that damaged/BLEM boat back from you.  Let us know how this unfolds -- sorry to hear of your disappointment.

This is the kind of advice I was looking for.  Thanks for taking the time to reply.   

Being a new kayaker, I am unaware of how the hull distortion will affect the boat, or if it will reform with heat.  It's not horribly misshapen, but is noticeable when looking at the hull with the boat turned on edge.   I photographed the problem, but the deformation really isn't all the discernible in the image. 

Every kayak I've had shipped (3 of them) had very minor deformation and disappeared after couple days or when I heated it with a blow drier. If it doesn't go away with some heat I'd bring it up to Jackson too.

If you ordered and paid for a new boat but got a blem and have to install the rudder your self I would want at least a 40% discount or they come pick it up and deliver you a brand new boat. Have you candled the hull to make sure there aren't any other defects you haven't noticed?
If not put a light source (flash light or such) inside the hull and turn it on. Now turn off the other lights in the room. You are looking for unevenness in the hull thickness. Overly thick isn't really a problem. Overly thin is a no go for me. Basically you get to decide what you do or don't accept.
Best of luck.   

If you ordered and paid for a new boat but got a blem and have to install the rudder your self I would want at least a 40% discount or they come pick it up and deliver you a brand new boat. Have you candled the hull to make sure there aren't any other defects you haven't noticed?
If not put a light source (flash light or such) inside the hull and turn it on. Now turn off the other lights in the room. You are looking for unevenness in the hull thickness. Overly thick isn't really a problem. Overly thin is a no go for me. Basically you get to decide what you do or don't accept.
Best of luck.

Thanks for the advice Fungunnin.  I hadn't thought about that at all.   I'll definitely do this. 

I would think that the thin spots would show up as a bright spot, no?   How do you determine what is overly thin?  If there are "any" glaring bright spots would you say that is a disqualifying thin spot, or is there some more objective method to ascertain the hull thickness at these bright spots?

If you ordered and paid for a new boat but got a blem and have to install the rudder your self I would want at least a 40% discount or they come pick it up and deliver you a brand new boat.

+ 1.

A "Blem" (short for blemish) is a hull that is defective in some way when it comes out of the mold.  These are usually marked in some way (hence the branding) and serialized in the inventory as a blem.  The factory will then pile them up in the corner and sell them at a discount at some point.  They may not bother with decking them out with the usual bells and whistles, such as a rudder, and they may not back it up with a warranty.  The point is, they are sold separately from new boats and that means they essentially shipped you the wrong boat. It's sort of like they sent you a completely different model of kayak. It really sucks that they messed up your shipment and it's great that they are trying to fix it. If it was me, I would just sit tight and allow them to get you the right boat.  If I wanted a new boat I wouldn't take a blem even if they offered me a discount.  I have a blem boat in my garage, but I bought it because it was a blem.  Good luck with getting your boat!

Sorry to hear you had an unpleasant experience buying your Jackson.

Lots of manufacturers sell blemished products.  That's not rare.  If they're just ugly and not functionally deficient, they'll mark them as "Blemished" and sell them at a deep, deep discount.

You posted photos of the outer label and of the hull.  It's difficult to believe the vendor didn't know they were shipping a blemished factory second.  It had to be in their inventory and someone had to look at the outer label to make sure they were shipping the right brand and model.

I'd be nice, but I'd also be very skeptical of what you're being told.

Stay on top of it until you're happy.

I am happy to announce that all issues have been resolved.  I asked for and received a 45% discount on the total purchase price, and the vendor sent me a rudder kit for the boat.   I am thrilled with this resolution, and have no regrets on keeping the boat with the blemish and brand, particularly when I am staring at nearly a 50% savings over expected cost.  This savings alone will cover my recent expenses at Kayak Academy for a drysuit, bunny suit, NRS boots, NRS gloves, and a hat. 

Now I just have to figure out how to to install a rudder.  Doesn't look all that involved, and there are quite a few vids on the topic.

I haven't had it out yet, as I didn't want to use it or get too involved with rigging it until all issues were resolved.  If push came to shove, I wanted to be prepared to tell the vendor to simply come pick up the boat.  Now that the train is back on the track, it's full steam ahead.   Of course, Murphy struck, and the forecast for later today is winds 15-25mph, and gusts to 35.   

The vendor was Wildcat Creek Outfitters.  They are from Indiana, and had the lowest price from several major JK dealers that I talked with.  Every single bit of correspondence with them from the quote to the discount was from the store owner, Chad.   Chad was great to deal with, and I feel he really went to bat for me when trying to get the problem resolved with JK.  I never had to call JK myself, but I've no doubts that this experience would have been just as satisfying as I've only ever heard great things about JK customer service.  The whole thing took a little more time to resolve than I would have liked, but that's not to be unexpected when dealing with emails and 3000 miles/3 hours of time zone separation.   In the end, I'd be more than ready to make another major purchase from Wildcat, and I likely will when I start thinking about the next boat. 

I did use a flashlight on the inside of the hull to look for thin spots as suggested by Fungunnin, but I wasn't able to find any.

Thanks to everyone for sharing your wisdom.   

Glad to hear it all worked out.

I had a similar experience with Jackson Kayak Coosa. I have to say, I felt they treated me very fairly.
My issue was that the deck under the seat supports cracked. I sent pictures in and dealt with it through email. They offered me another boat at basically half price and this was within two weeks of the one year warranty ending. I upgraded to a Cuda (since sold) and kept the Coosa. Now I'm looking to buy another Coosa.

Good job!  Glad to see that you're satisfied - and happy - with the outcome.