Hook up ratio/strategy for butts

Just got back from wg. Fishing was slow. I had 4 hookups of which I landed 2 , 25# and 15# chickens. I am realizing that my landings are about 1 out of 3 hookups. I have tried circles and j hooks with the same success. Not sure if I'm not letting them chew on it long enough, or they are small chickens that are nibbling.

Saw lots of guys anchoring just beyond the kelp. Starting to think I should try it. Anyone have experience/opinions on anchoring vs drifting?
Thanks

Hi Nick - Welcome to WG and the forums !

I fall into that same group with Kardinal84 and Stu, etc.   I HATE circle hooks.  I have caught more fish on large octopus hooks, J-hooks, and Jigs - probably by a factor of 6 to 1, and that includes the time when I owned a power boat, and for years used only circles for dropping bait.  I like the way Stu put it - I am also halibut fishing ADD - cannot wait until the drag starts going or a really strong pull develops (i.e. you are getting towed in your kayak!)

My limited experience off WG is this - I catch far more fish when I have used 6/0 to 8/0 Octopus hooks rigged dual snell, with one 3 to 4" back of the other, and either free or through the tail of small herring.   Seems to get the 'short-striking' chickens better.   If you are meat fishing for small limits - suggest you go into this range and set the hook.   I have rigged bigger hooks up to some jigs, skirts, squids, etc.   

Last time out with Barbie I got a couple really nice hammer hits on a squid imitation with 9/0 and a sand lance jig with a rather large J-hook style jig head, but didn't get a good set on the hook cuz the drag was shot and ... insert more excuses here.  Regardless, I have upsized my jigs, bait, and hooks and brought those along to try and filter for a bigger halibut.   If my freezer wasn't pretty full I'd probably still be running the smaller gamakatsu octopus hooks and happily pull up the chickens along the way!

There is a thread further down the boards / and in last years board ? / with info from Dudemandude on how he anchors.   http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=13774.msg151382#msg151382   I think this is the older one from '14, but do a search for Kayak Anchor System in the search field upper right for more....   

I haven't yet - not sure I want to in Cook Inlet current.  If you do - have a rock-solid quick release system to get you off anchor fast if you need it.   CI has lots of logs, kelp matts, some old nets, etc floating in it, and any of those coming up your anchor rode will sink you quick.  The way most people anchor (stern of kayak, you face down current) any of these could sneak up on you.    I am watching anchor topics - will be asking for a peek at Dude's when next I can so I can see it in person and decide if I like the approach!

I agree with pretty much with everything AKRider mentioned.  Of course I have been fishing with him since we were in elementary school. 

For the Barbie tournament, I used dual 7/0 gamakatsu hooks on 60lbs leader.  One leader per fish.  I never reuse hooks if they are tied on anything less than a hundred pounds.  I also droppped down to green label herring to make sure even the chickens wouldn't have problems eating the entire bait. 

My strategy and I tend to over think things, is you need to understand how a halibut strikes.  Unlike a salmon that will slash at your lure often from the side, a halibut use much more of a "suction" type of feeding.  This is important because the hook set up is different for when you are trolling and when you are anchored or drifitng.  When anchored or drifiting, the halibut comes up and sucks the entire bait into its mouth, chews on it, and then takes off.   Because of this, we often used the plastic sinker sliders to make sure when they inhale the bait, the weight doesn't impeded the bait entering the mouth, 

But when trolling, they come up from behind and try to suck the bait down but can't as the forward momentum of the bait combined with the weights and the typical stiff rods don't allow for that.  I get a lot of my herring chopped off cleanly in half when trolling with a large single hook.  But you will see the "bump" on the rod. 

If you watch my videos, it doesn't look like I am trolling.  It looks like I am anchored or drifting, feel a hit, then strike.  But what really is happening is that I am trolling along, see a tap on the rod.  I can tell about 75% of the time if the strike is halibut or not by the speed I am trolling and how the rod reacted.  I then stop pedaling, I turn on my gopro (takes 5 seconds or so).  I then pick up the rod, feel for weight, then set the hook.  My theory is that a fish strikes the bait but misses.  But it injures the bait and the bait free falls to the bottom.  They then pick it up again and I can set the hook.

Most times, the strikes are just minor bounces of the rod tip.  I have only rarely seen my rod double over and take off like when a salmon hits.  Even if teh halibut fully engulfs the bait on its first strike, it often just keeps swimming along and its super hard to tell if you have a 5 pounder or 50 pounder until it makes its first run when trolling.  They just seem content to get led to the kayak until it sees you. 

If I HAD to catch halibut at WG, I would use dual 7/0 to 9/0 gamakatsu hooks on 100lbs leader.  But it's a pain because you can't remove the hooks very easily so I tend to run 12/0 Big River hooks on 200lbs leader that I can re-use and is much simpler to remove the hook from PLUS ihave tons more confidence if I hook into something 100 pounds or better. 

I am going to develop a trailer hook that I can clip onto my 12/0 single.  That way I can unclip it if it gets swallowed.  Probably a decent sized treble hook.  I want to decrease the number of times my bait comes back sawed in half when I troll. 

Trolling for halibut, the technique I mainly use is not a typical technique.  There probably are a million different and better ways to do it. I certainly don't have the monopoly on good ideas.  I am always trying to come up with better ways and its one of the reasons I love this forum! 

 

Oh, nice gyotaku by the way!!!  What did you do it with?  Ink? charcoal?

.....

But when trolling, they come up from behind and try to suck the bait down but can't as the forward momentum of the bait combined with the weights and the typical stiff rods don't allow for that.  I get a lot of my herring chopped off cleanly in half when trolling with a large single hook.  But you will see the "bump" on the rod.....

.... My theory is that a fish strikes the bait but misses.  But it injures the bait and the bait free falls to the bottom.  They then pick it up again and I can set the hook...

I am going to develop a trailer hook that I can clip onto my 12/0 single.  That way I can unclip it if it gets swallowed.  Probably a decent sized treble hook.  I want to decrease the number of times my bait comes back sawed in half when I troll. 
 

GREAT points - love the description for your troll hits, food for thought for sure.  I have seen video clips of halibut feeding and they seem to do a strike and circle back maneuver that is similar to your theory for trolling/drifting strikes.   

 I have some of the same 12/0 you describe in my garage - may play around a bit with 60 to 100# slip knots for easy-adding a treble on.  I like that Idea.

Thanks guys! Come to think of it, while trolling with gamagatsu hooks my landing ratio was much higher. I also have been using big bait. Are you more prone to snagging while drifting with the double hook? I may try a big river with a gama stinger.

So while drifting I generally wait for a tap tap bite, then wait to feel the weight of the fish, then hook set. I think I will allow for more time feeling the fishes weight before I set. I have noticed that I've set the hook and landed fish in the 30# range much better.

I did the gyotaku with ink. Here's another pic of it stretched out. Unfortunately the better one that i did got blood from my hands on it.

I seem to land more fish (halibut and kings) when I have no expectations. 

I'm going to give you some food for thought, because I know how much Rudy likes to overthink things.   

When butt fishing out of Ketchikan, I like to jig for them.  Probably like 10% of them come up side hooked right at the edge near the fin.  My theory is that they jump on the bait to smother it, and when I go to set the hook, it snags the side.  Actually a charter boat captain out of Valdez had the same thoughts.  We had a jig out one day, and one time I hooked up, he pretty quickly said it was side hooked.  He explained this theory as to why it happens.

I wonder how many missed hit happen because of this?  Put that treble on Rudy and see how many get snagged!!!

-Allen

I agree with pretty much with everything AKRider mentioned.  Of course I have been fishing with him since we were in elementary school. 

For the Barbie tournament, I used dual 7/0 gamakatsu hooks on 60lbs leader.  One leader per fish.  I never reuse hooks if they are tied on anything less than a hundred pounds.  I also droppped down to green label herring to make sure even the chickens wouldn't have problems eating the entire bait. 

My strategy and I tend to over think things, is you need to understand how a halibut strikes.  Unlike a salmon that will slash at your lure often from the side, a halibut use much more of a "suction" type of feeding.  This is important because the hook set up is different for when you are trolling and when you are anchored or drifitng.  When anchored or drifiting, the halibut comes up and sucks the entire bait into its mouth, chews on it, and then takes off.   Because of this, we often used the plastic sinker sliders to make sure when they inhale the bait, the weight doesn't impeded the bait entering the mouth, 

But when trolling, they come up from behind and try to suck the bait down but can't as the forward momentum of the bait combined with the weights and the typical stiff rods don't allow for that.  I get a lot of my herring chopped off cleanly in half when trolling with a large single hook.  But you will see the "bump" on the rod. 

If you watch my videos, it doesn't look like I am trolling.  It looks like I am anchored or drifting, feel a hit, then strike.  But what really is happening is that I am trolling along, see a tap on the rod.  I can tell about 75% of the time if the strike is halibut or not by the speed I am trolling and how the rod reacted.  I then stop pedaling, I turn on my gopro (takes 5 seconds or so).  I then pick up the rod, feel for weight, then set the hook.  My theory is that a fish strikes the bait but misses.  But it injures the bait and the bait free falls to the bottom.  They then pick it up again and I can set the hook.

Most times, the strikes are just minor bounces of the rod tip.  I have only rarely seen my rod double over and take off like when a salmon hits.  Even if teh halibut fully engulfs the bait on its first strike, it often just keeps swimming along and its super hard to tell if you have a 5 pounder or 50 pounder until it makes its first run when trolling.  They just seem content to get led to the kayak until it sees you. 

If I HAD to catch halibut at WG, I would use dual 7/0 to 9/0 gamakatsu hooks on 100lbs leader.  But it's a pain because you can't remove the hooks very easily so I tend to run 12/0 Big River hooks on 200lbs leader that I can re-use and is much simpler to remove the hook from PLUS ihave tons more confidence if I hook into something 100 pounds or better. 

I am going to develop a trailer hook that I can clip onto my 12/0 single.  That way I can unclip it if it gets swallowed.  Probably a decent sized treble hook.  I want to decrease the number of times my bait comes back sawed in half when I troll. 

Trolling for halibut, the technique I mainly use is not a typical technique.  There probably are a million different and better ways to do it. I certainly don't have the monopoly on good ideas.  I am always trying to come up with better ways and its one of the reasons I love this forum! 

 

Had an idea for your quick detachable trailer.
Try snelling a swivel to the shank and then clipping a trailer with a heavy duo lock?
Obviously this would be a meat hunting rig as a trebble anywhere inside the mouth is damn near impossible to get out of a live fish.

I haven't tried it too much on halibut, but fishing for grouper, you don't want to set the hook immediately, just start steadily reeling up, thus giving them a chance to chew on what they think is an escaping bait fish. Then when you feel solid weight, rip some lips and hold on.

I agree with pretty much with everything AKRider mentioned.  Of course I have been fishing with him since we were in elementary school. 

For the Barbie tournament, I used dual 7/0 gamakatsu hooks on 60lbs leader.  One leader per fish.  I never reuse hooks if they are tied on anything less than a hundred pounds.  I also droppped down to green label herring to make sure even the chickens wouldn't have problems eating the entire bait. 

My strategy and I tend to over think things, is you need to understand how a halibut strikes.  Unlike a salmon that will slash at your lure often from the side, a halibut use much more of a "suction" type of feeding.  This is important because the hook set up is different for when you are trolling and when you are anchored or drifitng.  When anchored or drifiting, the halibut comes up and sucks the entire bait into its mouth, chews on it, and then takes off.   Because of this, we often used the plastic sinker sliders to make sure when they inhale the bait, the weight doesn't impeded the bait entering the mouth, 

But when trolling, they come up from behind and try to suck the bait down but can't as the forward momentum of the bait combined with the weights and the typical stiff rods don't allow for that.  I get a lot of my herring chopped off cleanly in half when trolling with a large single hook.  But you will see the "bump" on the rod. 

If you watch my videos, it doesn't look like I am trolling.  It looks like I am anchored or drifting, feel a hit, then strike.  But what really is happening is that I am trolling along, see a tap on the rod.  I can tell about 75% of the time if the strike is halibut or not by the speed I am trolling and how the rod reacted.  I then stop pedaling, I turn on my gopro (takes 5 seconds or so).  I then pick up the rod, feel for weight, then set the hook.  My theory is that a fish strikes the bait but misses.  But it injures the bait and the bait free falls to the bottom.  They then pick it up again and I can set the hook.

Most times, the strikes are just minor bounces of the rod tip.  I have only rarely seen my rod double over and take off like when a salmon hits.  Even if teh halibut fully engulfs the bait on its first strike, it often just keeps swimming along and its super hard to tell if you have a 5 pounder or 50 pounder until it makes its first run when trolling.  They just seem content to get led to the kayak until it sees you. 

If I HAD to catch halibut at WG, I would use dual 7/0 to 9/0 gamakatsu hooks on 100lbs leader.  But it's a pain because you can't remove the hooks very easily so I tend to run 12/0 Big River hooks on 200lbs leader that I can re-use and is much simpler to remove the hook from PLUS ihave tons more confidence if I hook into something 100 pounds or better. 

I am going to develop a trailer hook that I can clip onto my 12/0 single.  That way I can unclip it if it gets swallowed.  Probably a decent sized treble hook.  I want to decrease the number of times my bait comes back sawed in half when I troll. 

Trolling for halibut, the technique I mainly use is not a typical technique.  There probably are a million different and better ways to do it. I certainly don't have the monopoly on good ideas.  I am always trying to come up with better ways and its one of the reasons I love this forum! 

 

Had an idea for your quick detachable trailer.
Try snelling a swivel to the shank and then clipping a trailer with a heavy duo lock?
Obviously this would be a meat hunting rig as a trebble anywhere inside the mouth is damn near impossible to get out of a live fish.

Sounds complicated.  Can't you just tie a snap to the tag end of the snell to the leading hook?  Or even just a swivel?  Why worry about the snap?  Just cut the trace if the trailer gets swallowed and retie another trailer to it.

-Allen

Sounds complicated.  Can't you just tie a snap to the tag end of the snell to the leading hook?  Or even just a swivel?  Why worry about the snap?  Just cut the trace if the trailer gets swallowed and retie another trailer to it.

-Allen

I guess even I am making this complicated.  Why not just tie to the eye, or clip to it if that's your preference?  Or is that what Rudy said to begin with?   

-Allen

LOL - Agreed.   
Another easy way - you tie  your trailer/stinger hook off at the belly of the giant J-hook with a knot that cinches.  Keep a few trebles tied with short leader on hand.  Double slip knot (or something equally fast) when you need it right onto the hook belly.  Cut off if it gets down the gullet or the knot gets scarred, and tie the next one on.   

I don't trust clips all that much.