Changes to 2017 marine bag limit.

As some of you may have seen/heard about a few new regs that will go into play for 2017, here is the link I am referring to. 

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/news/2016/12_dec/120216b.asp

Typical of ODFW to bring this to the table only AFTER they have already created the 2017 printed regulations.
With that it is only found (at this point in time) as a News Release.  I'll discuss this issue in a bit.

So, to clarify (for myself and anyone else wondering) I shot them an email requesting some details as it was worded way too ambiguously for myself and possibly you too. 

Here is what I wrote them.

To: 'Jessica.Sall@state.or.us' <Jessica.Sall@state.or.us>; 'Michelle.N.Dennehy@state.or.us' <Michelle.N.Dennehy@state.or.us>
Subject: 2017 marine bag limit changes. Confused....
 
Jessica or Michelle,
 
I am not completely understanding the print here about the changes to the marine bag limit adjustment per the ODFW webpage.
 
The seven fish marine bag limit will remain in place, with these adjustments for 2017:
 
Create a sub-bag limit of six black rockfish.
Remove the sub-bag limit for canary rockfish.
Add China/quillback/copper rockfishes to the sub-bag limit with blue/Deacon rockfish and change the limit from three to four fish.
Remove the 10-inch minimum size for kelp greenling.
 
If I can summarize how I read this, please correct me where I may go wrong.
 
I understand we still have a 7 fish limit.
This would still include 1 Cabezon (while in season).  I think it is time to just give Cabezon its own bag limit like we have for Lingcod, as there is a separate season on them already. 
 
Continuing…
*We will only be allowed six black rockfish, where in the past we were allowed seven (if not keeping any other rockfish species or a Cabezon).
*During 2016 we were allowed to keep one canary rockfish, but now I am not certain if this is no longer the case, or if we can keep seven canary rockfish (if not keeping any other rockfish species or a Cabezon).
*During 2016 we were NOT allowed to keep any China/Quillback/Copper rockfish at all.  Now we can keep four of these rockfish including the blue/Deacon. Is this in aggregate, or can we keep four of one species?
*The minimum size for the kelp greenling is understandable, what about the rock greenling?

Thanks so much for reading this.
I hope to hear back from you soon,
 
Craig Campbell
One of many avid kayak fisherman!

Their reply today. Go figure on the changes with the blacks and canary rockfish.  I would have never thought this would ever be the case. 

Hello Mr. Campbell,
Jessica forwarded your email to me to address the marine bag limit and greenling questions:
 
You are correct about being able to keep only 6 black rockfish in 2017.
You may keep up to 7 canary rockfish.
The blue/Deacon/China/copper/quillback bag limit is in aggregate, so you can keep up to 4 of any combination of these species.
 
Example legal catches under the 2017 bag limit structure:
·         7 canary
·         6 black + 1 canary
·         4 blue + 3 black
·         2 blue + 2 Deacon + 2 canary + 1 black
·         1 China + 1 quillback + 1 copper + 1 Deacon + 1 black + 1 canary + 1 cabezon (from July  1 – Dec. 30)
 
I understand your suggestion for a separate bag limit for cabezon, and that it makes sense because of the limited season.  We have kept it as part of the marine bag limit so far because it results in a reduction in the catch of other species that are part of the marine bag.  If anglers who kept a cabezon didn’t have to count it toward the 7-fish limit, they could fill that spot in their bag with another rockfish.  The increased catch of rockfish would mean that we may have to reduce one of the sub-bag limits further to keep overall catch under the annual limits.  Keeping cabezon as part of the overall bag gives anglers a little more flexibility.  It may seem like the difference would be small, and it would at an individual angler level, but it adds up coastwide over the year.
 
On the greenling length limit – thanks for asking, I realized we should not have specified “kelp greenling” – the change applies to all greenling (kelp and rock), so there is no longer a minimum length for either greenling species.   
 
Maggie Sommer   Marine Fisheries Section Leader
Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife, 2040 SE Marine Science DR., Newport, OR 97365
(541) 867-0300 x227   maggie.sommer@state.or.us

Now, about the actual way we get our regulations spewed to us. 
Currently they make changes to a yearly tweaked document that will go into print and sent to all the sporting good stores, etc.

Fine, we have a paper copy of regulations that are only good to wipe your ass with, roll up and swat flies on your truck dash, or even better, use to start your next campfire with. 

Wait... why do you say this Mr. INSAYN?

Glad you asked!

Let me paint you a picure (not an actual scenario, but a possible one):

I have a copy of the regs in my pocket, and currently fishing in location A for species X.  Then Mr. F&G shows up and asks me how my day is going. After small chit chat, he reveals that I am in violation of the "current" regs and will need a ticket to remedy my failure to follow the provided regs. 

Huh...wait....what?   I have the regs right here in my pocket sir!  Lets take a look together and see where I went wrong.

He doesn't even bother to look and just spews out that the regs have been updated online and that I am required to know my regs before fishing each time. 

Okay?   This brings me to my point that I've said for several years now.
Why do they bother printing out the regs all the while wasting trees and ink if it isn't even gospel on the water?  They require EVERYONE to at some point or way to have access to their website (or at least their phone number) to validate where, what, when, and how they plan to fish anywhere in Oregon BEFORE you hit the water.

To make it confusing enough, they tend to slap these changes to areas on their website willy nilly.
Some show up in the "New" sections, some pop up as a "Note" in other areas, as a "Hot Topic" in others,  and then there is actually a section called "Regulation Updates".  I have yet to see any consistency here.

They don't even update the document that is online that went out in print in the beginning of the year.  That alone would be an awesome place to put any changes as they are made throughout the year. 

 In my above email to ODFW I added a note asking about this, and looking forward to their response.

And while I am writing you, can I make a suggestion?
The yearly printed copies of the regs (at least the fishing regs) seems to be useless in that several times a year regs get changed.  These changes are not reprinted for people to pick up before going out fishing.
We are required to go online and look up any new changes before we go fishing.  Well, if we are responsible for being up to date on the regs and HAVE to use the resource of the internet to accomplish this, then it makes sense that anyone fishing will be required to have access to the internet anyways to be sure they are up to date on the regs for where they plan to fish.
 
If you stopped printing the regs, I would assume money would be saved somewhere in the mix, correct?
Just have the online version be updated on time when regs are changed so that any person heading out fishing, or is already out fishing can look it up real time and know what the regs are all in one place.
It is extremely complicated, and annoying to have to hunt down any new changes made as they get posted in various sections of the website. 
 
Can we get the regs simplified enough to only have one location where any and all regs are located.  There really is no need for paper copies anymore, as they don’t get reprinted as regs change, and as I mentioned before, we have to go online anyways to validate what the regs are for any given time, place, species, limit, tackle, etc…

Does anyone here have anything to offer in support of continued printing of paper copies of the regs, as I cannot think of any reason for them, as we are required to go online (or call them) to be in compliance when we go out on the water anyways.
 

The maps are pretty?  The advertising gives me another reason to complain about rampant consumerism?

I agree that the current system is ridiculous.  I wouldn't have stumbled upon the mandatory fish descender change if it hadn't been for danr's post, and I couldn't find it when I went looking for it in ODFW's pages until the page link was posted.

I check the updates before I plan a trip, but I haven't been looking at the other pages you mentioned.  And I wouldn't have thought to check News Releases for a change in the regulations.

Looking forward to seeing what, if any, response you get.

Does anyone here have anything to offer in support of continued printing of paper copies of the regs, as I cannot think of any reason for them, as we are required to go online (or call them) to be in compliance when we go out on the water anyways.
 

They make great toilet reading and in a pinch emergency toilet paper, even though the new glossy finish detracts from that a bit.  I say continue printing but go back to newspaper paper.   

Most of the regulations don't change year to year. I certainly rely on the hard copy in my truck to avoid problems since I try to fish new places often. However, expecting everyone to be checking the websites all year doesn't seem like a good way to go. I guess I get my alerts from reading fishing forums.

Does anyone here have anything to offer in support of continued printing of paper copies of the regs, as I cannot think of any reason for them, as we are required to go online (or call them) to be in compliance when we go out on the water anyways.
 

They make great toilet reading and in a pinch emergency toilet paper, even though the new glossy finish detracts from that a bit.  I say continue printing but go back to newspaper paper.   

NDOGG,
I think we would be better served on the crapper if we could get Victoria Secrets in a news print style of magazine rather than the useless ODFW Regs.

Most of the regulations don't change year to year. I certainly rely on the hard copy in my truck to avoid problems since I try to fish new places often. However, expecting everyone to be checking the websites all year doesn't seem like a good way to go. I guess I get my alerts from reading fishing forums.

I hear ya buddy.

But it goes full circle and we are back to requiring the use of the interwebs to be informed.

There are alot of areas in the regs that don't ever change, but there are also alot of areas that do change several times a year that get updated everywhere on their website, but never in the actual regs where it should be.

I agree 100%, the only reason that i found that new reg concerning the descender was cause i was absolutly lost on the ODFW web site, wasnt able to find what i was looking for, and by the time i found that new reg, completly forgot why i was even there

But it goes full circle and we are back to requiring the use of the interwebs to be informed.

And there's a big problem with that since there are lots of places where we can't get cell service or internet access.  If, like C_Run, you wander around and find a fishy-looking place you've never seen before, you may not be able to check online for changes.

Once the regs are printed, that should lock then in - carved in stone - until the following year.  It's okay to change catch limits and bag limits throughout the season - as long as they're announced in one, consistent, spot online - but slipping in changes that are simply afterthoughts, and burying the announcement in some obscure and inconsistent area of the ODFW website should at least make them unenforceable.

INSAYN is right: we have to provide all kinds of personal identification and contact information when purchasing a license, and if something like making descenders mandatory is so emergent that it needs to be added AFTER the regs are printed, it should be important enough to make ODFW spend the money to mail the announcement to each license holder.  If it's not significant enough to spend the cash, the change can wait until the following year.

Good point Tinker.  Complete changes/additions made after print that could net me a fine should be personally sent to me via currier pigeon on ODFW dime.  Otherwise, think this shit through before printing out the magazines.

The thing with ODFW printing out zillions of paper copies for the masses was fine when stuff didn't change much and we didn't have the interwebs. 

They could make the current live regs downloadable or printable for those that may find themselves possibly going off the grid.  Just download or print all, or only what you need for a given time. Then say a month later you plan to explore somewhere in the other direction. Update your download or prints and have at it.

Doing it this way, you always have the most up to date regs at the time of download/print.

Even better, would be to have a freaking app already that you set to auto update each time any reg has been updated on their live online regs.

Even better, would be to have a freaking app already that you set to auto update each time any reg has been updated on their live online regs.

THIS! Especially since the primary online regs aren't a pdf anymore (you can still get a pdf, but its not the "primary" way).  All the regs are formatted into their own sub-webpage thing

An app would be a good senior project for a computer science student at OSU, or PSU or something like that.

Even better, would be to have a freaking app already that you set to auto update each time any reg has been updated on their live online regs.

THIS! Especially since the primary online regs aren't a pdf anymore (you can still get a pdf, but its not the "primary" way).  All the regs are formatted into their own sub-webpage thing

An app would be a good senior project for a computer science student at OSU, or PSU or something like that.

California does this.  Pull up the map, click on the place you want to fish, and BAM current regs.  It's that easy, ODFW doesnt have to reinvent the wheel.

Marine:

https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/fishing/ocean/regulations/fishing-map

Inland:

https://map.dfg.ca.gov/sportfishingregs/

Its the one area where California is way out in front of Oregon.  Oregon should probably be embarrassed.

Fine, we have a paper copy of regulations that are only good to wipe your ass with, roll up and swat flies on your truck dash, or even better, use to start your next campfire with. 

In that order?? 

Fine, we have a paper copy of regulations that are only good to wipe your ass with, roll up and swat flies on your truck dash, or even better, use to start your next campfire with. 

In that order?? 

Pretty much.   

Thank you for taking the time to obtain, and share this valuable info!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Love the App idea for research and "know before you go". I agree with you 100% Craig. I haven't picked up the paper regs in several years for this very reason, in that it is outdated as soon as its printed!

In order to play their game, my solution has been to sign up for the ODFW release feeds. It is somewhat customizable so you can select what zones or information you want notified about. I got an email and read the changes about the groundfish and descender device as soon as it was implemented. This has come in super handy several times where there have been changes that would have got me in trouble. Particularly cases in point would be how FLUID the regs for Salmon and Sturgeon are!

It does feel like its a game of cat-and-mouse in that ODFW is "out to get us" by tricking us up on complicated and frequent reg changes. After all... they don't get enough monies through licensing fees already, so they have to do it through FINES! Right? Then again...Leveraging the internet for latest information available is the normal culture shift of today. ODFW isn't the only one. Like it or not, that will be a tough sell for that to change.