Native water sports?

I saw a yak in the kayak mag that was made by Native water sports I think and it had a peddle operated prop like a trolling motor. Has anyone seen this thing. Any opinions on it. Just wondering if it works very well.
Well back to the cave.

 I pedaled one briefly at a demo and its pretty nice. It's fairly light (about 70lbs),  stupid stable, and has forward and reverse. One more niciety is that it pedals like a bike instead of a stair climber.
 The biggest downside is it that it drafts deeper than the Hobie. In the Hobie you can short stroke it and maintain a fair speed with as little as 6" of water. With the Native you have to get out the paddle and flip up the drive when your at about a 18" depth. It also does not have any scuppers, so it's not aimed at open water fishing. But can you say "float bags"?
 It's a nice boat, but I don't remember the price because I'd just bought a Hobie. Its kinda funny though, I have not seen one out on the water here and there are a LOT of kayakfisher's here (Jacksonville, FL).

http://www.nativewatercraft.com/ult_14_propel.cfm

Of course I'm totally biased but what's the big deal about going in reverse? I've heard this before on other boards. I do it so rarely that having to break out the paddle is not a big deal.

Moreover I think the drive is optimum for going long distances and straight lines. Once it's close quarters and you need to maneuver quickly it's all about the paddle. Relying on a drive to do that is too inefficient IMO. A tool for every job, right?

Z

Of course I'm totally biased but what's the big deal about going in reverse? I've heard this before on other boards.
Z

Hmmmm, Zee you are the man BUT your bias is showing

Whats the big deal? The biggest is holding position. Being able to stop the boat without picking up the paddle is a really nice feature.  Kinda analogous to snow sking; Anybody who can stand up can snow ski, it's stopping and turning that's the challenge. 

 That said, I just picked up my replacement Adventure and I would not trade it for two Natives. For me the shallow draft and the open water capabilities far outweigh any advantages of the Native. The sales guy said the Hobie's faster as well. It might be competition for the Pro Angler though. It'd be pretty entertaining to see a race between them (did'nt I see something like that on the NCKA board a while back?)

BTW: the Native was priced about the same as the Big A  ~$2300

Hmmmm, Zee you are the man BUT your bias is showing

Whats the big deal? The biggest is holding position. Being able to stop the boat without picking up the paddle is a really nice feature.  Kinda analogous to snow sking; Anybody who can stand up can snow ski, it's stopping and turning that's the challenge. 

When it comes to holding position on a Hobie all you need to do is face up current/wind and pedal. This absolutely kills it rockfishing and drop shotting. In that position the rudder is at the back and steering is normal as always. If you're pedaling backwards and the rudder is at the stern you can't steer efficiently in good current wind. If they had a rudder on the bow and stern it might work better.

Being able to stop? FFTW, having a MD is not an excuse to not use your arms at all.. 

Z

I can see a couple of situations where having instantaneous forward and reverse would be handy.

• Back trolling on a big river with plugs, it would be easy to maintain the proper thumping action.
• Straight line jigging for walleyes on a big river, like the Columbia

That said, I'd prefer a self-bailing boat with scuppers.

That said, I'd prefer a self-bailing boat with scuppers.

says the man in the wherry.

That said, I'd prefer a self-bailing boat with scuppers.

says the man in the wherry.

He has a self bailing boat..."Janni, start bailing"

If I could make my boat self-bailing, without adding too much weight, I would.

had been looking at the native watercraft ultimate series recently..the local dealer is over on bainbridge island, a weekend day trip for me from down here at the low end of the sound, ..funny when i asked the dealer via email about a price list, he stopped talking to me..

i can see a lot of uses for reverse for someone who is inexperienced like i am...or who just gets carried away going into the weeds and assorted vegetation after bass and crappie...but the added draft??? no, that kind of defeats the purpose of having a yak in the 1st place.. it cuts the utility of being able to get into skinny or very shallow water,..so scratch the pedal drive...

where's ConeHeadMuddler when we need him? he has a native 12 if i recall correctly. i'm sure he can shed more light...

There is a group of kayakers who race on Lake Whatcom every Wednesday when it's a bit warmer.  One participant, the semi-official cameraman, has a pedal/propeller combination kayak.  Word is that he's quick, but he also has to keep his eyes out for weeds in a big way.  If he runs across weeds, his prop ceases to rotate (either direction).  The way it's built, there is no way to fix it until he lands, and retracting or folding the prop system can cause damage if the pile of weeds causes too much drag or pinch on the retraction mechanism.  This was a major consideration for me when I was doing my early investigation into pedal power.  The Hobie mirage drive avoids this by not being rotary and by having the drive removable while on the water. Yes, I am quite biased 

There is a group of kayakers who race on Lake Whatcom every Wednesday when it's a bit warmer.  One participant, the semi-official cameraman, has a pedal/propeller combination kayak.  Word is that he's quick, but he also has to keep his eyes out for weeds in a big way.  If he runs across weeds, his prop ceases to rotate (either direction).  The way it's built, there is no way to fix it until he lands, and retracting or folding the prop system can cause damage if the pile of weeds causes too much drag or pinch on the retraction mechanism.  This was a major consideration for me when I was doing my early investigation into pedal power.  The Hobie mirage drive avoids this by not being rotary and by having the drive removable while on the water. Yes, I am quite biased 

ConeHead here, checking in with my .02:

Richard and Yak Monkey, I agree with your assumptions and descriptions.

I don't have the prop gizmo. It simply would be a major pain in the ass in most waters where I paddle, no help at all. The above comments are true. I regularly paddle over shallows mud flats and gravel bars, and shallow eel grass beds. Being able to take "shortcuts" and slide over the grassy flats in 4" of water is a big plus.
Last Summer I participated in the "Elk River Challenge," a local paddling event, and one of the other participants had a cool looking prop-driven boat with pedal power. It was a shaft-drive (long shaft) with a metal prop, and the poor guy didn't get far before the prop was completely wound up with eel grass and he was dead in the water. He had to be rescued by the tender boat.

He might have made it farther if he had stayed in the main channel of the Elk, but the event was a race, and that strategy wouldn't have worked. I can see those things winding up any other sea grass or kelp, as well.

Those Native prop drives most likely would not work for MOST of the places I go, except non-weedy lakes and lower sections of bigger rivers. Just my opinion. I like to get a paddling workout to keep me in shape for more paddling. I ride bikes a lot, so I can pedal all day if I have to. The Hobie drive looks interesting, but I'm not sure it would slide over the eel grass flats, very cleanly, either. Hmmmm.  How shallow can you really go (in actual use) with the mirage drive and not worry about it jamming up with weeds, etc??

ahhhh, now, that , sir, is a question for mssrs Zee et Wali

I put my hobie drive to that very test last fall on Silver lake.  There was a nice lookin' spot on the far side of a big bed of dying lilypads, so I decided to go for it.  I pulled up my rudder and started across.  It only took a second and I got hitched to a plant. Didnt' surprise me.  So, back-paddled a bit, and unfolded the "flippers" about half way. Then, I quite simply reached forward and un-hooked the drive unit and pulled it right out of the hull.  I finished paddling (mostly pushing against the plants) my way across the lilypads with not problem other than the drag of the leaves.  Not the most recommended way to go about it, but ultimately I made it across.

I wasn't worried as the "flippers" that are the propulsion system actually fold up against the under side of the hull and need very little clearance.  I haven't measured, but I would be surprised if it takes up more than 2" on the underside of the 'yak when folded. It's also nice that there's a built in bungie that is for holding the pedals back so that your feet are free to anchor for the paddle stroke.  Total draft depends on the particular 'yak and the operator's weight.  Most freshwater grasses haven't been a bother at all, so I would expect the same from eelgrass.  I don't see kelp being small enough or loose enough to be much of a problem. Worst case, you pull up the drive and clear it.

Thanks, Yak Monkey.  I am beginning to think that a Hobie with the mirage drive would be the best way for me to fish the South Jetty at the Grays Harbor entrance.
My Ultimate 12 is really great for the estuaries and tidal creeks, small lakes w/o boat ramps,  & flatter water rivers, but it wasn't designed to handle ocean conditions.