Set up for salmon

Hey All,

So far all of you folks have been very helpful, lets see if we can keep the streak alive, I am sure you guys will. Anyways, I am trying to figure out what kind of set up should I use? Since I have always been a land locked fisherman, I am not familiar with the techniques. Doing a bunch of research, I've found alot of info about mooching, trolling, and jigging. Jigging seems pretty basic, but I have questions about mooching and trolling.

Mooching:
http://www.steelheader.net/Salmon/mooching.htm

So from what I have read, it sounds as if mooching is pretty much riding the current, pretty much going at a slow speed. Also, you drop your gear to the bottom, and slowing bring it up (while moving forward), and repeat. From what I read searching the forums, it sounds like most of you use a 6oz cresent sinker.
* Are my assumptions far off base? or close?
* Is this similar to set ups you folks currently use?
* What kind of gear is recommended for a setting like this?
* Is a downrigger something you would use for this? is it required?
* I read somewhere (cant remember where), that a cut plug herring substituted with buzz bomb, and it is pretty successful. Is this true?

Trolling:
So I am really not familiar with this at all. It sounds like I could either drop my line using something like a hoochie or buzz bomb. Only downside to that is that it won't sink down all the way. I guess the other method is using a downrigger, with a lighter weight since I'll be on a kayak.
http://www.sschapterpsa.com/ramblings/Downrigger_salmontrolling.html
http://wdfw.wa.gov/fish/salmon/how_to_catch-marine_trolling.htm

* What kind of gear is recommended for a setting like this?
* What kind of lure (cut plug?) should I use for trolling?
* Is a downrigger a must?

Here is a list of my current gear (I don't have much here since I recently moved here and all):
* 8'6" Shimano Graphite, Line Wt 8-17lb, Lure wt:1/4-1oz, Power: Med, Action: Fast.
* Spinning Reel with 20lb(maybe15lb) Spectra Line.

Should I look at upgrading my gear for mooching, trolling, or jigging? What would you folks recommend for equipment? If I have to upgrade, would my equipment be good for anything out there on my (future) kayak? Should I consider using a bait casting reel? I've never used one before, but would it be better for these styles of fishing?

I was reading suggested that I use a rod that is in the 8ft range with medium action and power. With a 20lb mainline and leader.

Thanks alot for all the help! Any advice is greatly appreciated by someone who has no idea what they are doing! Please overload me with info. The way I see it is that "there are no stupid questions, just stupid people (me)."

Andy

andy,

my experience has been that mooching will catch you alot of dog fish and not much salmon.  Jigging is fairly simple and can catch you alot of fish but not much salmon...trolling herring will catch some salmon and some dog fish but you go through alot of expensive herring.  and last on my list is trolling using lures or plastic squid...i add smelly jelly to the lures to eliminate any human pheremone smells...and it works for me...my latest experiments include using saltwater flies and see what i can come up with

the biggest item to consider is fishing where there are fish...you could spend all day using the best gear and tackle but if there isnt any fish you wont catch...you could be in the middle of a school of fish and catch with most anything in your tacklebox

downriggers are very helpful to get down to where the big fish are and there are guys on the board that use them from their kayak

* What kind of gear is recommended for a setting like this?

I like a 9' heavy, moderate action mooching rod w/ a line rating of about 10-30# test and lure rating of 1-6 oz. It'll work for a couple of different kinds of fishing.

* Is a downrigger something you would use for this? is it required?

You can but it's a lot of work and an advanced technique. I'd start out simple and work my way up if I were you.

Mooching does work but there's certain places that you should do it at. It can get thick with dogfish but it can also produce. Kallitype killed it last year mooching. It's a nice simple way to learn the ropes.

You sound like you're on the right trail. Keep on reading and you'll be there in no time.

Z

I haven't bothered with a downrigger for two reasons: a) I don't do enough of the kinds of fishing where it would pay off, and b) trolling can be a pain to lower gear and maintain forward speed at the same time. Maybe once I get my daughter trained at the oars, it will be worth pursuing. Pedal power is definitely advantageous for trolling.

The advantage of trolling is that you can cover more area, making it easier to locate fish, especially if they're scattered. With jigging and mooching it really helps to know which areas concentrate fish, and then search those areas for fish before dropping.

Mooching can be done just by drifting where there's good current. If there's not enough current to maintain the optimal 45 degree line angle, a little power can help (motor mooching or "trooching" as NCKA's Joel would put it). If you see baitballs on the FF, you just want to drop through and just below the bait. I've used as little as 2oz and as much as 8oz for weight. Mooching gear, when the coho are thick in the west part of the Straits, is a kick in the pants.

With jigging, the idea is to keep the line relatively vertical. Like mooching it's tough to be successful if you don't know where the fish are.

In my experience, dogfish are at their worst in the summer in the San Juans and the N Sound. Not as much trouble in the winter or the S Sound. I've rarely caught dogfish out at Neah Bay.

In my experience, dogfish are at their worst in the summer in the San Juans and the N Sound. Not as much trouble in the winter or the S Sound.

True. In my neck of the woods of area 10 the dogs will dog on you all day long if you try mooching. There's still some spots that are ok but limited. In area 11 and on down they're still there but not much of a nuisance.

Z

So correct me if I am wrong, I would probably be best jigging with my current rod with something like a buzz bomb? What reel would you recommend?

As always, thanks!

andy

So correct me if I am wrong, I would probably be best jigging with my current rod with something like a buzz bomb? What reel would you recommend?

As always, thanks!

andy

You could. I'd personally like a more moderate action that you'd get from a glass rod. Buzz bombs are very popular. Also look into Point Wilson Dart's Candlefish and LJ's Crippled Herring. Make sure to find those fish in concentrations on your fish finder before jigging.

For a good moderately priced reel try the Shimano TR's. More spendy try the Tekota.

Z

Good tips on this thread!
 Dogfish come into area 11 ({Point Defiance, Vashon Island, Gig Harbor, and Allen Bank) around the beginning of June and are thickest in July, they are mostly on the bottom, but you can catch them way up in the water column on trolled herring at certain times---don't ask me how I know this! 
  I have caught the most salmon (25 last year) trolling hoochies and spoons, but my biggest fish have come to mooched cutplug herring---35,31 and 29# all taken at about 5:30 in summer at the secret hole (right in front of Point Dalco's concrete seawall where the bottom drops from 90 to 160 feet ---ooops, secret's out!).  The secret of catching more salmon than dogfish is to keep the bait moving---strip it out until it hits bottom, pause a couple seconds, then get it moving back up.  Your best hits will come on the drop---be ready to reel like a banshee to catch up to the fish, they take the herring and head for the surface.  Don't make the mistake of trying to "rip their lips"---most kings are missed by being too aggressive on the hookset.  Let them take the bait in, just reel tight and hang on.  The Maztuo sickle hooks are less likely to come out when the fish gets a little slack, I know of only one place to get them.  I use 3/0 and 5/0 for mooching leaders.  Here's a link:

http://www.wildwolfproducts.com/hooks.htm   50 3/0 hooks about $12+shipping

   Depending on current and wind, a 3 or 4 oz sinker is usually adequate to depths of 150 feet.  In a fast ebb (8-12 ft exchange) 6 ounces will do, but it's not as much fun to fish as the lighter weights.  Gets a herring down in a hurry, though.
In July and early AUgust, big returning fall kings are usually suspended at 40-60 feet in the morning, especially on a high slack at sunup.  There are two good "bites" in area 11---one at first light, about 3:45:AM to 4:00, then a bite on a tide change as the sun comes over the horizon, on July 15 that's about 5:15. You can usually have that first bite to yourself, most guys don't get on the water and get fishing before 05:00.

  That's not to say that you can't take kings at any time of day, you can.  For instance, if there's an ebb starting at midnight, the best bite at Point Dalco will be about 1 to 1.5 hours into the flood, maybe about 0900.  And there's usually an evening bite at POint Defiance, between the boathouse and the slagpile, around 6-8PM.   THe nice thing about that first bite is that you can usually have the first part to yourself---most PB guys will be at Point D thru the bottom of the ebb.
The bad part of Point Dalo is the crowd of PB's that come over and roar around, spoiling your drift.  If that happens, just go shallow---as shallow as 15-20 feet, north of the 3 houses at the north end of Pt Dalco.  I saw a guy take 2 25# kings out of 20 feet of water there, one sunny dawn.
  The downside of Pt Defiance, besides the yo-yos in PB's, are the seals and sea lions. Along with the abundance of dogfish, that's pretty much kept me away from Point D the past couple years.  My friend Joel likes to troll Quartmaster Harbor, pulling 3-inch rebel plugs, and has caught a lot of kings and silvers in pretty shallow water there. 
   Another secret hole I don't mind sharing is the big shelf and dropoff east of the slagpile---about 1/2 mile east, in fact,  there's a long broad shelf that suddenly drops into 250-300 feet, and you can catch kings being pushed out of Commencement bay toward the slagpile. 

Excellent info KT. For those who are even thinking of salmon fishing.. write down the above.

Z

great info KT
cats out of the bag now!

andy, if you are on a starting/limited budget i began with a similar rod to what you have described and a larger baitcasting reel with 20# dacron line on it...with that set up you could conceivably fish mooching, trolling, jigging and casting for salmon and all sorts of other fish in other locations...i still have that set and still use it now and then cause its so versatile...i dont like to take many poles with me when i go out in my kayak and i dont bring expensive ones with me out of fear of loosing them or ?? so i usually bring that pole/reel combo and a fly rod in my kayak...

kallitype and Zee,

So from what you are saying, it sounds like if I had a slow and steady paddle, or just ride the current, I could drop my line with a 3 or 4 oz banana sinker with either a cutplug herring or something else like a hoochie or spoon similar to the link below, and be pretty successful...right?

http://www.steelheader.net/Salmon/images/moochingdemo.jpg

As far as jigging, i could just drop my line with a dart or buzz bomb it...assuming there are fish near by.

SOrry guys, I need "Fishing From a Boat 101."

Thanks!

btw, i would be doing most of my fishing in MA 11

Hey, I just want to say sorry and thanks to all of you guys. I am VERY eager to learn, and figure that we all had to start somewhere.

No worries PP, we all start somewhere. Sounds like you're getting it. Now get out there, fish, and take a few pics for the report!

Z

No worries PP, we all start somewhere. Sounds like you're getting it. Now get out there, fish, and take a few pics for the report!

Z

I would love to...I have to get my tax return first so I could by my vessel...well small vessel.

have an Abu Garcia set up i've fallen in love with that i'm going to use as a general purpose set up for the sound and salt.. that pool cue i took to pacific city won't see much more use from the yak i think...come to think of it, nothign i have will see much use this year..

but was just over on BPS and am wondering if one of these rods would fill the bill for a lot of people..;  http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_89429____10007568?ordProd=Y&CMID=TOP_selectitems#itemDetail

having said that, i really wish sportsmans warehouse would have a lot better online presence.. i like their rod selections..