Dry Suits

Hi All,

Well, after the recent rain on the Moutcha Bay trip I realized that my fishing gear is just not up to the Pacific Northwest weather.  What was once waterproof in Santa Cruz CA, quickly soaked through and made for some wet and chilly nights, not to mention the strain of putting that stuff back on again at 5:00 a.m.  Prior to the trip I picked up some pretty good pants and some "aqua socks" to go under my dive booties.  The pants worked out OK, but the stocks were a total joke ($40) and the fell apart after two days of fishing and NEVER kept the water out at all. 

At this point I can really only think of two ways to keep totally dry.

1.  Wear fishing waders with a belt and overboots.......not ideal.
2.  A dry suit........pretty pricey.

Seems that there are two levels of dry suits.....SCUBA capable (well over $1000) or Kayak style ($500 range).  Since I need a dry suite for diving anyway I was kind of leaning that way to save a little money down the road, but the idea of fishing with that tight "gasket" snug up around my neck all day just doesn't sound all that comfortable.

I'd love to hear any thoughts on this or other outfits/gear that work well for you guys.

Basically I want to be able to walk in 1-2 ft of water or dangle my feet over the side without any water getting in.  If I'm going to make it out this winter for those nice Steelhead, I've got to get my stuff together or I'll never pull myself out of bed at 4:00 a.m. when it is snowing out.

Thanks,

Darren

Hey Fishdog,

I use exercise both of your options.  If it's dry and pretty safe, I use the waders with maybe a rain jacket.  If it's really wet out and/or I might flip today or get hit in the chest with chop or surf... then I'll use the Kokatat Tropos paddling suit, which is to say that it's not a true dry suit.  I went back and forth with these two methods over the Moutcha weekend.  Either way, I use the same cheap canvas over-boots that I picked up for $30.

The Tropos has a neoprene (like a wet suit) neck instead of a latex style.  It's a little tiny bit more comfy, but you couldn't use it for diving.  If you want to make the tight latex style more comfy, you can do what Polepole does and use a ring to strech it while you're wearing it.  No doubt he'll weigh in after reading this and describe it better than I have.  He should use some photos or something too, if he's worth his salt!

Show the man what I'm talking about Polepole.

Oh, yeah... one more thing.  If you want to try before you buy, George Gronseth ( http://www.kayakacademy.com/ ) will rent you a drysuit by the day.  He has the Tropos or you can ask him for the latex-neck style if you want.  Seems like they were pretty reasonable.

Fishin-T

Fishdog,

One more comment about using the Polepole neck ring:  seems to me if you fall into the water, you won't get protection from getting wet if you manage to go in over your neck for a second.  If the suit fills up with water you'll play hell getting all of that weight back onto your boat and you won't be able to slip out of the suit like you can a pair of waders.

Long story made short:  it seems like the neck ring kind of defeats the purpose of the dry suit instead of a pair of fishing waders with a rain suit top.  Yeah, the neck ring on the Tropos will also leak.  But very, very slowly.  If you can pop back up to the surface in about 2 seconds, you will usually only take on about 1/4 cup of water, maybe even less.

Fishin-T

I use the neck ring when the water is rougher (chance of entering may be  higher).  At Moutcha I couldn't find the ring before heading up so I didn't have it.  But I was still comfortable in the weather we had up there (not too hot).  I opted for the full goretex suit as it breathes more.  I think it is not as hot as the Tropos material, which felt a lot hotter to me.  Granted, the goretex is more expensive.  I think a full diving wetsuit would be hotter as it doesn't breathe like the goretex would.

-Allen

I have both the Kokatat Tropos suit and a Goretex one. While the Tropos is a little less breathable than the GoreTex, the fabric is lighter and more comfortable to wear and the thin neoprene neck gasket is way more comfortable. I mostly use the Tropos suit unless I'll be facing a good chance of swimming in really rough seas; then, I'd rather rely on the latex neck gasket and durability of the GoreTex suit. I also use the GoreTex suit for teaching kayaking because as Fishin-T said, the neo neck is pretty dry, but it's not dry enough for being submerged repeatedly.

The one thing I would absolutely not do is use a diving suit. People used to use non-breathable suits for paddling and you'll wet from the inside out and literally have to pour the sweat out at the end of the day. I've seen people end up with sweat water up to their knees inside their non-breathable suit! Like Allen said, spring for a breathable suit.You can sometimes pick up used paddling dry suits on various websites. If you go this route, stick with a Kokatat one; because they are the only ones made in the US, you can send it in for leak testing and repair for a nominal fee.

Sue

I'll mention it again, as it's worked so well for me, but I do use breathable waders, with a drytop.  (I'd only use the waders alone if I thought I'd be comfortable in the water for a long time, or there was little risk.) I already had the Simms waders and the top cost ~$100 at Sierra Traders. Because it is a true drytop, it's a PIA to pull on, but it did keep me warm and comfy at Moutcha. For warm days and cold water, I'd like a paddle top (neoprene cuffs) to match with the waders. For really cold water/cold weather (or big exposure potential) I'd like a paddling drysuit.

Thanks for all of the feedback thus far. 

Scuba drysuit is totally out and I'm leaning toward the goretex dry-paddle suit.

Pisco, with your dry top on, if you were to take a dip, would much water make it up the bottom of the top and then down the waders?  I'm not really planning on spending much time in the water, but ya never know 

Darren

Pisco, with your dry top on, if you were to take a dip, would much water make it up the bottom of the top and then down the waders?  I'm not really planning on spending much time in the water, but ya never know 

FD, I have the same setup and done some really good tests on how much water gets in. I put on the waders and drytop (Exrasport Plus Flex) over that. Walked out into the sound and swam around for about 20 min.. I swam freestyle, dove to the bottom a few times (was hard w/ the floatation of the air in the waders/drytop) then threw on my PFD and floated around for another 15 min.. All I got from all of that was a light trickle. It did get cold since I was only wearing shorts and a t-shirt underneath but I was dry. I think as long as there's no surf or chop/heavy winds you could handle it for quite some time. With the right undergarments I think you could hang out for much longer. Just need to make sure everything's nice and cinched down and I felt safe! This will be my winter gear for the sound/lakes this year.

Z

One thing that no one has talked about much is that breathable dry suits have no insulation. You will be perfectly dry while you bounce along the bottom frozen solid. I have a tropos (mine has a latex neck seal) and adding insulation has inspired the secret fish dance (that Wannabe was selling tickets too) when I'm putting it on or taking it off.

Lately I've been very comfortable in neoprene waders and a drytop (immersed in 50 degree water) and its not uncomfortably hot in the sun. Hanging your legs overboard is a great way to cool off and great for your balance. Excellent insulation and no dancing required.

FFTW,

Totally true about the insullation, or lack of it, in the dry suits.  I made the mistake of wearing just a thin pair of nylon pants and a tee-shirt under mine in the rain at Moutcha.  It rained heavy that day and once the suit was all wet on the outside, I got a chilly as though I was wearing a soaked cotton shirt.  Just the thinnest layer will keep you from directly touching the material that gets SO cold once it's wet on the outside.  My legs did fine even with just nylon pants.

I find that the same thing happens with those seal-skinz gloves.  Now I'm going to have to go and buy a bigger pair of them so I can wear some cotton jerseys under them.

As an experiment, try wearing a pair of rubber surgical gloves and immerse your hands in really cold water.  The cold goes right through them as though they aren't there, even though your hands never get wet.  That's how it works with the suit too, except the suit (and the seal-skinz) stay wet and chill you all the more while the water evaporates off of the suit.  I find that the thinnest synthetic material can be enough if it's suitable for the air temps were that you were out of your suit and not wet.  Just enough to keep you warm at this air temp if you were dry; just enough to keep your skin from touching the inside of the suit.


Fishin-T

I learned the same thing FT. After a few rain showers I was feeling chilly. Only problem is when I'm getting ready I feel warm so think "Nah, I'll be ok." Lesson learned, a t-shirt and shorts is not enough!

Z

I live in cold country (it can get to -20F), so I've got lots of polypropylene and synthetic fleece. I always wear at least a light layer between me and my suit, for the comfort. It's less chafing, besides being warmer in wet weather. I don't wear cotton inside the suits, because it's still damp even if breathable.

Greetings.

Does anyone have any thoughts about using a dry suit as waders?

I am new to river fishing, but I am excited to learn this winter.  The one possible drawback might be the inability to remove the upper portion of the suit on warmer days.  I figure I could regulate my temperature, to some degree  , by adjusting my layers. 

I also have a farmer john that I could use on real warm days, I recon. 

Thanks for any feedback.

Jesse

Cold air/cold water conditions would probably be fine- it's when it's nice out, but the water is cold, that will b tough. I don't know what hiking in them would be like.

I have a bunch of stuff but I prefer my Kokatat Supernova semi dry suit.  It's very comfortable and the relief zipper is awesome.  My second favorite is waist high breathable waders with a dry top.  My third choice would be chest high waders and dry top.