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Topic: new yaker in need of some advice...  (Read 6672 times)

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VooDuuChild

  • Krill
  • *
  • Location: Northeast of Seattle 40 minutes
  • Date Registered: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 11
   Although I am no stranger to fishing having a 16.6' Smokercraft setup for fishing, a 12 footer aluminum with dual RV batteries and electric motor (for my favorite little lakes that don't allow gas motors), a 14' Mad River canoe, I have now recently purchased my first fishing yak, and of course a totally portable fish finder from hummingbird to use on all.  My new toy for relieving the stress of life is the Mojo Angler from Emotion.  It looks to be very well built, as stable as any kayak could be and well appointed.  What I'm having trouble with is that I wonder if it is looked down on for not using a standard kayak-style paddle.  What are the benefits of using a traditional kayak paddle over my trusty single plank paddle?  It would seem to me to be more cumbersome than a shorter canoe paddle.  I love my canoe paddle and it silently serves me quite well on the big, giant, heavy and wide Mad River canoe.  (I highly recommend this canoe to anyone for fishing, it is so stable, so dang comfy and while not the fastest, lightest or sleekest unit you can find, it's truly amazing on the water, but this information should be for another thread; but feel free to IM me if you'd like any input on that vessel as I've spent more hours in it than any other floater I've been in).  I can literally cruise down wind, trolling two poles (by myself), stand up and "relieve" myself into my favorite large mouth sports drink bottle spilling nary an drop as I've consumed many "spirits" to quench my thirst.  It's just that stable.  Where the canoe leaves me wanting is that while an excellent craft which can be fished out of all day comfortably, it is heavy can be difficult to manage as I primarily fish alone where this canoe really is more at home with two people.  So I end up having to add a ton (well, quite a few pounds anyhow) to the front to keep the keel fully in the water so I remain is control during windy conditions.  So I began researching options and decided that while not really the lightest, or the best fishing yak available; I would start with what to me seems a very fishable platform, the Emotion Mojo Angler and when on sale through a major outlet, saved me literally hundreds of dollars and was delivered to my doorstep.

   So, the point to this diatribe is to wonder what are really the benefits of a traditional yak paddle versus my canoe paddle that I am so comfortable with?  Obviously the canoe paddle will work as the yak is a good margin narrower than the canoe and has plenty of power with me at the stick.  But as always, a decision is, as always, made better when there are opinions given by those of experience.....and of course just going and doing both to get a feel for it would help too.

   By the way, as you can see this is my first post; although I've been lurking and reading much night after night.  I have, unfortunately due to my new work schedule, even had the chance to maiden my new little yacht.  It so kills me to see it there every morning (I work second shift) not being used....it must feel so un-loved.  And here I go, babbling on and on; it's easy for me to do as I'm sure you're all going to find out in future posts.  Thanks for any input and advice; none will go unheeded.  Oh yes, by the way; once I am more seasoned, I will take to the sound for the fun of pinks and silvers; right now I will be primarily fishing freshwater lakes, most small with difficult access (my most favorite types of fishing) and of course, by myself.  Once again, thanks for any tips and advice; I look forward to my upcoming adventures on my newest addition to my fleet, a yak.


VooDuuChild

  • Krill
  • *
  • Location: Northeast of Seattle 40 minutes
  • Date Registered: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 11
And here I go babbling even more before someone can respond.  Geeze Louise, I need to know when to just stop.  Anyhow; fyi, I am northeast of Seattle, in between Darrington and Arlington (just signed papers to buy a house yesterday, wooo hoo) and am not against meeting up with some veterans of the sport.  It will however take some time before I introduce anyone to some of my lesser known holes that contain some of the most amazing crappie fishing this side of the state has to offer.  I'm talkin slabs people.  Not some little nine incher, we're talkin ones that tip the measuring tapes over twelve inches.....but like I said, these are secret and moreover sacred spots.....and I'm sure some of you Washington "north-enders" probably already know about.  Nothing beats fishing some little mudhole and pulling out prize-sized slabs. 

Sorry, I'm babbling again.....it's late, I've embibed a few drinks and just go on and on. 


bjoakland

  • Salmon
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  • Location: Anywhere I can fit 8 wheels and 2 kayaks!
  • Date Registered: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 514
Caught one question.  Canoe paddle vs. kayak paddle.

Well, a kayak paddle is designed for a kayak, a canoe paddle for a canoe.  Both are adapted to their purpose.

Things to think about:
... a canoe puts the operator's shoulders much higher off the water, changing how your frame and muscles relate to the motion necessary...
... a canoe is much wider, affecting the motion of frame and muscle as well (moving to the stern of a canoe is common because it's narrower and the shape at that portion of the boat is much more conducive to the torso rotation and shoulder motion of the paddler) ...
... a canoe doesn't track straight as well as most kayaks, hence the J stroke for constant subtle corrections (though many short & entry level kayaks have the same problem, and the body mechanics to fix it are different) ...
... a canoe paddle is much slower to get blade to water on opposite side; loss of propulsion = drag slows the boat's overall average speed ...
... a canoe stroke can put the blade quite a ways past the hip, which is a no-no in good kayak paddling form ...

So... a kayak paddle is more efficient in a kayak because of how your body, boat and water relate to each other.  Don't think of the paddles as compared just to each other, and try not to assume that moving both types of boats through the water is the same challenge.  They are evolutions of design best suited to each craft.  Heck, I am likely to get a new, 10cm shorter kayak paddle as I am playing in a new addition to the fleet: a  narrower, longer, lower kayak.... and I feel like I would benefit from a slightly shorter paddle.

While you are in research mode, look up videos on the forward paddle stroke in a kayak.  You will find lots of stuff on the proper way to engage a very large percentage of your body, much more than you would expect, and more than you can with a canoe paddle.

my $0.02, hope it helps
•• If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles. ~ Doug Larson ••


demonick

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  • Domenick Venezia, Author
  • Date Registered: Apr 2009
  • Posts: 2835
What Yak Monkey said.  I can't imagine paddling my kayak with an inefficient  canoe paddle against wind and current.  The way I think of it, kayak paddling is more a torso/leg thing than an arm/back thing. 
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sherminator

  • Salmon
  • ******
  • Location: Tigard, OR
  • Date Registered: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 845
Since you have a paddler, I'd say a double bladed paddle is better. I am a peddler, and I prefer a single bladed paddle for the Willy or lakes. I am using the paddle primarily for reverse, close quarters, and near shore maneuvering, and I find its more compact length and stub end advantageous for those purposes. The paddle I use is a 3 piece double bladed Sevylor paddle with one blade in my fish crate and one one the paddle. It has a fairly long shaft and a rigid blade that make it good for pushing off the bottom and docks and such. I bring the regular Hobie double blade paddle when I am in big open water, though.
15x tournament loser
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Krusty

  • Krill
  • *
  • Location: Spokanistan
  • Date Registered: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 16
I canoed for many years, then took up kayaking, and now also own an Emotion Mojo Angler, and have spent many happy hours flyfishing from it, in total comfort.  Congratulations on an intelligent purchase.  It's a solid watercraft....I'm completely happy with its performance.  It's stable, tracks well, and can easily handle some good sized waves (and if you get swamped, the SOT design lets the water out anyway).

Once you use a double bladed paddle it will become obvious why it's a superior configuration for a kayak.  You're sitting in the middle of the thing, the two blades are equal distances from each side, and slight manipulations of the paddle allow you to move forward or easily turn.  You've always got an alternating blade in the water.  I wouldn't think of using a single bladed paddle in any of my kayaks (I still have a canoe, but find I use it less and less...it's just a 2 person PITA to lug around, and just not as agile as a kayak).  Most canoes are superb for carrying freight sized loads....but the kayak is the sports car of the human powered boat world. 

I do, however, carry a collapsible single bladed paddle as an emergency paddle, as well as a means to maintain or change kayak position (by sculling with one hand) while still keeping the rod in my hands.

It is extremely important that you get as light a kayak double paddle as you can reasonably afford.  A good quality lightweight kayak paddle makes all the difference (and lightweight doesn't mean fragile).....and the paddle should be properly fitted for your torso height and width of the kayak (SOT tend to be somewhat wider, which probably means your paddle needs to be a bit longer than you'd use in a sit-inside-kayak).  A light paddle will allow you to paddle all day with much less fatigue.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2011, 06:07:01 PM by Krusty »


micahgee

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  • Location: W. Seattle
  • Date Registered: May 2011
  • Posts: 1338
If you want to get the most out of your new kayak, get a quality double-bladed kayak paddle! As far a kayak paddles go, I'd highly recommend a Werner Tybee (high angle) or Skagit (low angle) say 220cm. I've use a bunch of Carlisle paddles over the years, which have too much flex and the shafts take on water which makes paddling much more tiring. Then I got a Werner and it was so much easier to paddle.

A Tybee or Skagit will run around $130 new, a bit pricey for Werner's "basic" paddle but well worth it. IMHO If you are going to be doing lots of paddling in a kayak, money spent on a quality paddle, is money well spent.

http://www.rei.com/product/785575/werner-tybee-paddle-fiberglass
http://www.rei.com/product/781862/werner-skagit-paddle
« Last Edit: October 31, 2011, 06:26:24 PM by micahgee »
“A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” - Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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Krusty

  • Krill
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  • Location: Spokanistan
  • Date Registered: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 16
As far as paddles go, I'd highly recommend a Werner Tybee (high angle) or Skagit (low angle). I've use a bunch of Carlisle paddles over the years, which have too much flex and the shafts take on water which makes paddling much more tiring.

A Tybee or Skagit will run around $130 new, a bit pricey for a "basic" paddle but well worth it. IMHO If you are going to be doing lots of paddling in a kayak, money spent on a quality paddle like a Werner, is money well spent.

http://www.rei.com/product/785575/werner-tybee-paddle-fiberglass
http://www.rei.com/product/781862/werner-skagit-paddle
Good advice.  I've seen people paddling a $300 kayaks with a $400 paddle....which makes pretty good sense when you really think about it.  I'd rather scrimp on a boat than scrimp on the paddle.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2011, 06:27:20 PM by Krusty »


CraigVM62

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  • Location: Sumner
  • Date Registered: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 579
VooDuu,   How tall are you?  Every search I did when researching kayak paddles suggested that a great factor in choosing the correct paddle length was based on height / arm span.
I used to think that Bigfoot might exist. Then I saw the reality shows where they are looking for them.  Now I am certain they don't


jstonick

  • Guest
Not to be a jerk but I would be interested in hearing a quantitative proof that an expensive paddle is better. Almost all of the force is the blade against the water. I can not imagine that most folks would notice that much difference. As a reference point my wife's uncle was in the Olympics for two man flat water kayak and he does not own a carbon paddle. I would save my money for bait and gas :)


Quillback

  • Guest
Here's a link with some basic info on kayak paddle selection:
http://paddling.about.com/od/gearequipment/a/Choose_Paddle.htm

Hope this provides some background and helps in your selection.


micahgee

  • Sturgeon
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  • Location: W. Seattle
  • Date Registered: May 2011
  • Posts: 1338
Not to be a jerk but I would be interested in hearing a quantitative proof that an expensive paddle is better. Almost all of the force is the blade against the water. I can not imagine that most folks would notice that much difference. As a reference point my wife's uncle was in the Olympics for two man flat water kayak and he does not own a carbon paddle. I would save my money for bait and gas :)

One of the big differences with the "expensive" paddles is weight. Less strain, less pain, more distance covered. Sure you can get by with an cheapo plastic paddle but a basic Werner priced a little higher will be easier to paddle. More expensive paddle = Lighter in general.

Another thing to note is that I've had the Hobie stock paddles break during a surf launch.

If you can go further, faster and with less strain, it seems like a good investment to me.

I still think the low-end Werners are the way to go.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2011, 08:29:14 PM by micahgee »
“A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” - Antoine de Saint-Exupery

www.heroesonthewater.org


craig

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  • Location: Tualatin, OR
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Not to be a jerk but I would be interested in hearing a quantitative proof that an expensive paddle is better. Almost all of the force is the blade against the water. I can not imagine that most folks would notice that much difference. As a reference point my wife's uncle was in the Olympics for two man flat water kayak and he does not own a carbon paddle. I would save my money for bait and gas :)

He didn't say get an expensive paddle, he said get a quality paddle ;).  One of my favorite paddles cost me about $4.50 (and a few hours of labor).  It is a Greenland paddle I carved out of an 8 foot cedar 2 X 4.  It weighs 26 ounces.  I would put it against any paddle for durability and comfort in paddling.   It is warm in the hands, like carbon or fiber glass, not cold like cheaper lower quality aluminum paddles.  Oh, and if it breaks, I can plane it down and smoke fish with the cedar chips. ;D


Krusty

  • Krill
  • *
  • Location: Spokanistan
  • Date Registered: Oct 2011
  • Posts: 16
Not to be a jerk but I would be interested in hearing a quantitative proof that an expensive paddle is better. Almost all of the force is the blade against the water. I can not imagine that most folks would notice that much difference. As a reference point my wife's uncle was in the Olympics for two man flat water kayak and he does not own a carbon paddle. I would save my money for bait and gas :)
Work involves the expenditure of energy to move mass over distance in a certain amount of time. Simple physics. A lightweight kayak paddle has a efficiency advantage over a heavier paddle, the degree of which depends upon the respective weight difference of the paddles, if all other factors are the same (blade profile/configuration, shaft stiffness, etc). This is due to the fact that a fairly significant portion of the paddler's total energy output is consumed by simply holding and moving the paddle at chest height.  That's not to say there are not declining advantages in successively lighter (and substantially more expensive) paddles.  As the practical limits of design and material science are approached, the cost of shaving each additional gram becomes ever greater.  Your wife's uncle is plainly the exception to the rule....most competitive kayak athletes utilize exquisitely light (and expensive) paddles...particularly if their event requires endurance rather than short-term sprint exertion..and the exception does not 'prove the rule'.  We're not talking about racing here, but the same fundamentals that make the casting of a modern graphite flyrod much less energy consumptive than that of a heavy old fiberglass flyrod apply....repetitively moving more mass requires more human energy....and inevitably, at the end of a long day of paddling, more fatigue.

If you're still not convinced, try a day of paddling with a cheap and heavy paddle, and then one with a lightweight (but not exotically expensive paddle) and I think you'll feel the distinct advantages of the lightweight paddle.  A $130 Werner paddle is not, by any means, an expensive paddle.  It's more like the functional difference between a decent Proto wrench, and one you purchase at Harbor Freight....just a better tool.


Nu2kayaksnomore

  • Herring
  • **
  • WS Tarpon 120, Hobie Revo, Hobie Tandem Island
  • Location: Vashon, WA
  • Date Registered: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 23
I have to agree with pdxfisher. I got a Bending Branches Whisper (entry level, mid-range quality aluminum/plastic paddle $60.00) included with the purchase of my Tarpon 120. So basically, it was free. It's working just fine. I can't imagine putting my money (what's left of it) into a fancy paddle. Hell, you need a fancy new rod and reel, a fancy new fish finder, a fancy new dry suit........ :laugh:

I could go on and on. But one thing I think everyone here would agree on- you need a kayak paddle for a kayak.  ;)





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