Anyone try trolling flies for springers?

I am going to try trolling flies for springers and wondered if anyone has any experience. My plan is to run an 850 grain Deep Water Express or T-20 head using my 12 weight. I have hooked and occasionally landed salmon and steelhead with a fly rod in my kayak but usually during the summer and fall, and almost always anchored. I don't play the springer game like a purist and I am not above putting a little gravy on the fly. However, I see catching springers on a fly being entirely possible when the visibility improves on the Willamette or Columbia. I don't like weighted flies since they don't act as natural as the unweighted flies. Last year I tried this from my jet sled and from my Redfish 10, but my patience was thin in the sled and I never felt I was fishing effectively in the kayak. With my Hobie, I believe I will have better control of the line and I will force myself to leave the flashers, spinners and bait back at the house. I am into sharing ideas on this quest.

If you can put and keep your fly between 12-25 ft deep while trolling I think you might have a decent chance.  Not a fly guy but larger baitfish imitations (herring or chovie) or flies with some chartreuse in them might just get bit.  I'd concentrate on the lower river where the flows mellow out, otherwise I don't think you could get your gear down (and keep it) where it needs to be if there is much current.   Might be something to save until mid May when the river really clears up and the Columbia backs up the Willamette and kills the current.  There are also places you could cast and strip flies that would probably work but I'll save those for a PM.

I'd be very interested in hearing the results.  The early season saltwater king fishery the main baitfish present is the pacific Sandlance.  Much smaller and skinnier than the smallest bait herring available.  I have a few slatwater flies that seem to imitate the sandlance perfectly.



I'm going to troll it behind a flasher and a downrigger if I had any confidence.  I put the scent on the flasher as to not screw up the "action" of the fly.  I really think I need the flashers for the kings but this coho season when the fish are in thicker, I plan on using my flyrod but attach it to a downrigger.  I bet its a blast with a single action reel.  I probably will take the flyline off as well to use it as a mooching rig.

My biggest concern is if I could keep the fish on the hook.  It's "iffy" enough with two 5/0 gamakatsu octopus hooks as it is. 

I'm with ConeHeadMuddler on this one.  It's something, but it ain't fly fishing. But I don't think anybody is intending to pose as a flyfisher while juicing a fly.  It's at most just a way to add more thrill to the fight, fishing light tackle (flyrod) with bait or scent. Not flyfishing, just the prospect of a wild ride with a nice fat and feisty King attached to a bug wand. I can see the joy in that.

It took me decades to get to the point where I could expect to entice, catch and safely release rainbows in the +25" class as a fly fisher. I'm just starting out fishing the salt for Pacific salmon, halibut, lings and rockfish. It's hard to imagine much success without taking every advantage as the fisher: bait, scent, flashers and divers, super-strong conventional gear.  Maybe I'm coming at this oddly. But now that I've accepted the idea of abandoning fur and feathers in favor of developing skills in fisheries I've not attempted often before, I'm looking for maximum action rather than purity.

If you put gravy on the fly, then you can't claim fly fishing. The "gravy" turns it into bait, according to the regs, and by any definition of fly angling.

But there's nothing wrong with doing that, if you want, as long as you don't try to pretend that you are fly fishing. That would be dishonest posing. You'd be bait fishing with a fly rod.
 
I put a little on a rabbit strip leech once, and it ruined its action. Globs up marabou, too. Stinks like hell. I wouldn't want any to get on my cork grip. So I always use "conventional gear" when using bait.

Springers aren't always that easy to catch. Why make things more difficult by using fly gear with what amounts to "bait?" Especially if you are "faking it" with a scented fly and couldn't honestly claim it as a bona-fide fly-caught fish? I just don't understand this at all.

Just to ruffle your feathers a bit In Oregon he would be fly fishing (although not in the purist sense. From the Oregon regs:

Bait: Any item used to attract fish which is not an artificial fly or a lure. Molded soft plastic or rubber imitation worms,
eggs, or other imitation baits are considered bait. Scent is not considered bait.

It took me decades to get to the point where I could expect to entice, catch and safely release rainbows in the +25" class as a fly fisher. I'm just starting out fishing the salt for Pacific salmon, halibut, lings and rockfish. It's hard to imagine much success without taking every advantage as the fisher: bait, scent, flashers and divers, super-strong conventional gear. 

you can catch plenty of salmon (more coho and pinks vs. chinook), rockfish, and lingcod being a "purist".

rockfish are especially easy to catch on cast flies and sinking lines.  coho at times can be pretty easy prey and pink salmon (odd years) can be ridiculously easy.

chinook are much more difficult on a cast fly in saltwater but it can be doable if you are willing to put in the time and effort.

I would think the 850 grain would be a little over kill on the 12wt. For the 12 I'd suggest a 500-600 grain line. If you are going to "troll" the fly get a full line with the intermediate running line. A 24 or 30 foot sink tip will get down in a hurry and you'll do fine with it.

For Kings on the fly, just focus on the most productive hours and leave middle of the day to the gear guys. Fishing early and late when there is a little less light will have some of the kings higher up in the water column. The tidal push will affect them as well and fish pushing in on a strong incoming tide many times will be higher in the water column depending on the river.

Don't chuck huge flies. If you're fishing unweighted flies fish smaller ones. Hot wire comets, boss, etc. are all really sparse and therefore sink great. A size 1 or 1/0 black comet with little to no flash and just some silver ribbing has stood the test of time and has probably caught thousands of kings in Alaska.

Lastly, report back! I can't wait to see the picture of you hoisting up a 30 pounder!!

Hey pdx, thanks for the info on scent not being bait in OR. I didn't know that.

Mostly I pointed it out just to tease you a bit. I enjoy fly fishing quite a bit. I have been flyfishing and tying flies since I was about 12. When I was young it was stream fishing for trout in PA. In grad school I was throwing poppers for brim and bass in NC. Since moving to OR I have not done a ton, but I do enjoy hitting the Wilson for SRCs every once in a while. I have hooked a steelhead on my fly rod but not landed one. I have not tried flyfishing out of my kayak yet, but one of these days I will get around to it.

oregon has pretty strict rules regarding their fly fishing only waters, and using scent is certainly not on the list of "acceptables".  scent may not be "bait" but it is not allowable in fly fishing only waters or even included in the pamphlets definition of fly fishing.

here's the actual wording

Artificial Fly - "A fly is a hook, dressed with conventional fly tying materials. The affixed materials may be natural or synthetic. Tied in conjunction with other materials, the following items may be part of the fly: wire (lead or other metal) used for weighting the fly, dumbbell eyes or beads (metal, glass or plastic). A fly is not a hook to which sinkers, molded weights, spinners, spoons or similar attractors are attached."

Fly Angling - "Angling with a fly rod, fly reel, (no spinning or fixed spool reel(s)), floating or sinking fly line, leader, any type of backing line, and an artificial fly. In waters restricted to “Fly Angling Only” no additional weights or attractors shall be attached to the hook, leader, or line, and no metal core lines may be used."

i wouldn't put juice on my fly on the north umpqua in the summer and expect to be able to talk my way out of a ticket if busted.

i still haven't seen a case made that scent on flies is fly fishing.

of course, i think the best bet would be to wait for clarity to improve and attempt to find places where you can cast and retrieve a fly for the kings.  i would check out some of the flies and reports from the following web site (seems to have some of the best info i've seen on the web)

http://fishingwithjay.wordpress.com/

oregon has pretty strict rules regarding their fly fishing only waters, and using scent is certainly not on the list of "acceptables".  scent may not be "bait" but it is not allowable in fly fishing only waters or even included in the pamphlets definition of fly fishing.

here's the actual wording

Artificial Fly - "A fly is a hook, dressed with conventional fly tying materials. The affixed materials may be natural or synthetic. Tied in conjunction with other materials, the following items may be part of the fly: wire (lead or other metal) used for weighting the fly, dumbbell eyes or beads (metal, glass or plastic). A fly is not a hook to which sinkers, molded weights, spinners, spoons or similar attractors are attached."

Fly Angling - "Angling with a fly rod, fly reel, (no spinning or fixed spool reel(s)), floating or sinking fly line, leader, any type of backing line, and an artificial fly. In waters restricted to “Fly Angling Only” no additional weights or attractors shall be attached to the hook, leader, or line, and no metal core lines may be used."

i wouldn't put juice on my fly on the north umpqua in the summer and expect to be able to talk my way out of a ticket if busted.

i still haven't seen a case made that scent on flies is fly fishing.

of course, i think the best bet would be to wait for clarity to improve and attempt to find places where you can cast and retrieve a fly for the kings.  i would check out some of the flies and reports from the following web site (seems to have some of the best info i've seen on the web)

http://fishingwithjay.wordpress.com/

That is interesting. I have never used scent on a fly but I wonder what the official ODFW stance is. I would assume it is no scent. It would be nice if the ODFW explicitly added that into the fly angling description.

So, if I normally (cough, cough) wash my hands with Mike's Salmon Scent and then tie my fly on to my tippet I'm good?

True

I haven't trolled for springers with a fly, but I do troll for atlantic salmon at Hosmer lake where ODFW stocks atlantics every 3rd year.  Usually a fairly large gaudy white fly with some flash will interest the atlantics which run 16-21 inches.  Don't count on interesting any of the large brook trout you'll paddle over using this method.  Enjoy the view, the lake is clear and max. depth is ~11 feet. You'll see all the fish you're fishing for. 

I too have fished Hosmer and did great in my kayak and actually talked one of my fly fishing buddies to try kayak fly fishing at the lake. Within 10 minutes he had a big smile and was talking about getting one. Regarding my original post - great comments and explanations, especially the regs. Just to be clear, I am not interested in being a fly fishing purist in my quest for springers. And, I plan on using the gravy only as needed and obviously never in fly fishing only water (which my target area certainly is not). I know I can catch more fish, especially spring chinook trolling bait, flashers, gear, etc, in my jet sled. In reality, my wife is more productive at getting fish that I am - she goes to the market. And it's cheaper. I am interested in trying different ways to catch fish. For many years I was a fly fishing “purist” (but not a true purist because I fished flies below the surface rather than strictly dries). Along the way I rediscovered that I simply loved to fish and by only fly fishing I was missing out on a much bigger world. I know I can catch nearly any fish on a fly, and trying to figure out how to do so is why I love to fly fish. Kayak fly fishing, and kayak fishing in general, is yet another quest that makes me think, learn and appreciate my environment and sport (although I think of fishing as more than a sport) that, besides my family, is often the reason I get out of bed in the morning with a smile on my face and a bounce in my step. So yes, onward. I will certainly post any updates I have and I can only hope I am lucky enough to post a photo of a fresh hatchery king caught on fly gear from my Hobie.

A fly is not a hook to which sinkers, molded weights, spinners, spoons or similar attractors are attached."

 

Scent is an attractant.  Attractors are listed above.

A fly is not a hook to which sinkers, molded weights, spinners, spoons or similar attractors are attached."

 

Scent is an attractant.  Attractors are listed above.

Problem is use of attractor, which I take to mean spinner blades, etc vs attractant which is called out separately from lures. If they had said attractant I would have no question whatsoever.