The kayak trolling conundrum

I troll most of the time when I'm after salmon and trout and usually used a planer of some sort. I've been somewhat happy with the results but there's just some problems that led me to look for something better. Recently I've changed to a downrigger and feel I've made some progress.

Trolling deep is one part of yakfishing that I think has had little attention since most of us only troll the top 10'-15' FOW. It's obvious to see that all the boats that bring in the nice big bright fish are always down at 80'-120' and it feels like that is just too far down for us. And the short of it, it pretty much is. Pretty much. In my experience, trolling deep is always hard because no matter what system you use you have to fight the forces of drag and that will tire you out.

So far to date (about a year) I'd used a Pink Lady and Deep Six. The biggest complaint I've had using them is that I really have no idea how deep I am. You can guess by how many pulls of line you let out but the planer does go far behind you so w/ the line @ an angle you're left guessing. Another complaint is having the planer on the line while fighting the fish. Too much lead in the way.

So the solution to me, a downrigger. There's been a lot of discussion of why it works and doesn't but it seemed to make enough sense to work better than a planer so went for it. I've found that, with the downrigger you have a much better picture of how deep your gear is and found that it's also less drag than a planer. Also the line pops off the downrigger to fighting the fish is a lot funner.

As far as installation goes, I've followed the placement MattK used, just to the right and behind the seat. It puts it in a spot that is easy to access w/o strain and right next to the rod holder. I still have lots of testing to go but so far it's a great addition.

Z







 

Are you using Matt's fair-lead through the scupper idea? Keeping the gear near the centerline seems like a good idea- plus there's the bonus of actually being able to see your dball on the FF.

Z,

I can't tell from your photos, but if you haven't already remove the downrigger wire and replace it with some thinner spectra or other braided line.  You'll have less drag on the downrigger and will be able to get deeper with it.

Brian

And with spectra, you can cut the rigger line with a knife much more easily ... in case you get in a "situation" that requires it.

-Allen

Hey Allen have you had a chance to make one of these down riggers yet?

Charlie

Hey Allen have you had a chance to make one of these down riggers yet?

Charlie

Funny you should ask ... got one coming in this week!!!   

-Allen

I can't tell from your photos, but if you haven't already remove the downrigger wire and replace it with some thinner spectra or other braided line.

Did it right away. Been lovin' PowerPro for days.

Are you using Matt's fair-lead through the scupper idea?

You know I was thinking about that but a little worried about wear on the line and yak. As you can see in the pic, I set the downrigger pointing as straight back as possible. It barely pulls to the right. As w/ seeing it on the FF, it's short lived. Once you've begun moving the ball is already behind you.

In case anyone else is thinking of buying there's a company in Ballard, LFS Marine, that has the best price I could find anywhere, $54. They're super low tech and may take some time but cool people.
http://www.lfsmarineoutdoor.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=119

Zeelander,

I'm struggling with your same issues.  Last summer I installed a canon downrigger bracket in the same spot you did (on my x-factor).  I also took my old Canon easy-troll 2 downrigger (full size downrigger) and sawed off the fiberglass boom so it is about half as long.  I had put fairly heavy spectra downrigger line on about 8 years ago.  I opted for a 4 pound downrigger ball to reduce the flexure on the downrigger bracket/kayak.  When I took it out for a test drive, I was convinced there still needs to be a better way.  The heavy spectra doesn't perform as well as I would have hoped but I still think for safety reasons it's the only way to go.  With a light ball the swingback is significant and the drag is much greater when it is really deep verses when it is shallow.  Also the line drag from the fishing pole line also adds to the problem.

The other big problem is the gymnastics that are required to clip up, feed out line, drop the ball, and keep the kayak moving in a straight line all at the same time.  For me, this is why I ended up using the deep-6 most of the time up in canada last year.

I've had really good success trolling wire line for lake trout at Flathead lake in montana, actually even better luck than with a downrigger.  I think it would work extremely well there in a kayak, but with macks you are pretty much trolling on the bottom so you let line out until you feel bottom so knowing the depth is not as important.  For intermediate depths I dont know how much to let out.  However, fishing 100 feet down is not much of a problem with a plug and wire line without any weight.  If there are lots of boats downriggering in the vicinity, I can see a problem with someone cutting behind you and getting your wire tangled in theirs.

I think if you could get a 10 pound ball with spectra through a sleeved (to protect the kayak) scupper hole at the centerline without significantly torqueing on the rigger/kayak attachment point, it would work pretty well.  You would obviously need a separate line sleeve combination to retrieve the ball from underneath the kayak.

I'll keep my eye's posted on the forum for any successful better ideas.

Best of luck!

Mike

this is kind of an amusing topic for me to watch play out...one of the reasons i am getting into kayak fishing is for the simplicity of it all.  I currently and for many years have owned a large gas "fishing boat" all rigged out with down riggers, trolling motors, fish finders etc.  i got tired of all the "gear" and hassle and  gas money and towing vehicles etc and want to simplify my fishing experience.... next thing on the list will be adding trolling motors to our kayaks!

its just amusing to me; dont take it too seriously

Yes, I can see the amusing part of it.

However, we are still fishermen, and as most fishermen do, we tinker, tinker, and tinker some more ... all for the sake of trying to catch more fish!!!

That being said, there are some real purist amongst us, including myself sometimes.  Heck, I've consciously just taken a rod and a small amount of gear, without fishfinders and all, just for the sake of simplicity.  And I have to say, I enjoyed that a lot.  However, that's not to say I don't like really gearing up sometimes.

-Allen

I've never used a fishfinder on a yak.  There are times I'd love to have one, and a downrigger looks great too.  But I've caught salmon at over 70 pulls with a DeepSix, and it feels good.  Simple is good for me, but, like I said, I do want to try those things some time.   

I hear y'all on simplicity and practice plenty of it. When I'm not trolling I only carry a fly rod and a fly box. Can't get simpler than that. But I do like to troll w/ gear. It's the workout and the fishing that's just the best combo.

As for the deep six Ab, they really don't work here on the parts of the sound I fish. In my experience a Deep Six will get you down to 70' or so then from there it's just really far behind you. You can get plenty of fish at that depth but you'll never get those 20-40# Chinook that are glued to the bottom @ 100'-120'. Just the dynamic of how salmon run here in the sound I guess.

And HBH, what isn't simple about my setup? A rod & downrigger. Any way you slice it you'll still need at least some way get your gear down to troll effectively. I guess as you transition from your dino burner to yak you'll find that out at least.

Z

i am as guilty as any man when it comes to tinkering and buying new gear for fishing...that is the basis for my humor here...i have gone all the way and spent countless hours, gas and gear chasing the elusive fish...lately i realized i had more fun rowing my canoe around close to shore and enjoyed it just as much

you know how it is...the grass in greener on the other side of the downrigger!

laugh at me now...i just spent a bunch of $ on new gear off ebay to improve my tackle box

i am as guilty as any man when it comes to tinkering and buying new gear for fishing...that is the basis for my humor here...i have gone all the way and spent countless hours, gas and gear chasing the elusive fish...lately i realized i had more fun rowing my canoe around close to shore and enjoyed it just as much

you know how it is...the grass in greener on the other side of the downrigger!

laugh at me now...i just spent a bunch of $ on new gear off ebay to improve my tackle box

Spoken like a true fisherman!!! 

-Allen

That is a nice set up you have zee. I wonder about the long term wear on the hull of the yak with weight on it like that causing dents. I have used deep sixs too and have worked ok. But to get deep I still use sinker release's. Of course you have to carry more wieght with ya, (i use scrap steel and weld eyelets on so i am not dropping lead every where) The down rigger just seems to cumbersome. What happens when you hook a big fish and he decides to make a few laps around your down rigger line. I can't work a fish and reel up weight at the same time.