Native Watercraft Mariner 12.5 Propel? Anybody ever get to play with one?

Hey Guys! While Looking at Hobie set-ups, I came across the Native Watercraft Mariner 12.5 Propel. This seems to be very popular in the South East and the Gulf Coast. The more that I have looked into it, the more I like it.
 Has anybody had a chance to pedal one of these? I did a dealer search and there are only a couple of dealers in Oregon. None of the listed dealers are nearby.
 I know that Hobie has a pretty strong following and with the products and customer service are "unmatched". I still would like to give the Mariner a try.
                    http://nativewatercraft.com/boat.cfm?id=22
Does anybody have experience with this boat or native watercraft? I would love to get one of these on the water for a try.
Thanks

I am in the same boat as I have gotten tired of paddling when I would much rather be casting.   

I am surprised I can't find more reviews from people who have actually tried both and done a side by side comparison.   This is one of the few that I could find.

http://www.yakangler.com/forum/25-answer-bag/9419-hobie-mirage-drive-vs-native-propel-

I was leaning towards the Propel Drive being that I do a good amount of bicycling so expected it would feel more natural.  The reverse option is also appealing.   Now hearing that the Propel can tend to suffer from cavitation has changed that.    Just as Hobie provides different offerings of fins.  it would be nice if Propel had different offerings of propellers.    It is my understanding that the fastest man powered marine craft still utilize prop based systems.   
  I was under the conclusion that nether had an advantage over the other when in shallow water or going over obstructions.  I just recently saw a video showing how the Mirage fins can be brought up for shallow water running while even still being able to provide some  propulsion.   Impressive.

I wish Ocean Kayak would step into the ring with their own leg powered system since more options always makes for better decisions

Look up Udo Wald via google. He runs a paddle Shop out on one of the seattle area islands. His shop sells Native. Last email to him about it a year ago was kind of apathetic.

Basically you're looking for a unicorn in a sea of zebras. Good luck.

I believe that this year NW updated the Propel system with new lower cassette and prop. It makes the boat accelerate faster and has a more "natural feel" when cruising. Also, it is much quieter. The owners all say that it is a 100% improvement.
 I found a ton of info here http://www.nativeownersgroup.com/forum.php.

Sandsquirt,

I don't know if information about my concerns with the Propel drive fall under the category of unicorns or zebras       but your link provided a great source for answers.       
Thanks

Not in oregon... but the Alpine Experience in Olympia, WA sells nativecraft and has regular demo days... or did thru the summer.  They seem to be pretty knowledgeable about the product and even excited about it.

I was originally going to get one before purchasing the PA. 
My decision was based on wanting to get in the salt.  I did not see the Native as being feasible around the WP jetty.

Jst looking at the hull, not to sure I would take that into the ocean as oly has stated. Should be great for relaxing on lakes though. For me so far in my limited experiance, the mirage drive is pretty darn cool. You can make a mistake and it survives, bends out of the way or folds back up, and yeah I have used it in super shallow water and still propel, with odd little 1/8th kicks of the pedals.

Thanks guys. Having not been out on the salt myself, what makes this hull bad for it. It appears more stable and dryer than a Revo. I know that they get them out in the gulf, but that is a whole different thing. This is why experience is key.
Thanks

OK, time to stop being a wise ass and fess up.
I'd honestly considered one for South Sound use. Launching at Luhr Boat ramp and heading northwest towards the islands or around the tidal flats and up the mouth of the Nisqually etc.. I wanted something different and roughly the price point of a Hobie.

Trouble is, when i checked out one this past spring at an east coast kayak symposium, i really didnt like having to have almost 3 feet of water under me to drop the propel drive and be able to peddle. meanwhile with it pulled backto the stow position, i didnt feel comfortable with it partlially in my lap and blocking either my casting or my paddle stroke. yes you can back up with the propel, but it feels awkward doing so.

Having owned an I9s, at least with a mirage drive, i can bring the fins up close to the hull and get in even closer to a fishing area or the shore. Score one for hobie in that dept. but don't forget you stil  have to be cognizant of your fins and their relationship to the bottom structure

Also, take a good look at the stern. It's flat fairly featureless and open, no tankwell, no really defined stern break. In a medium sized wave set, look for it to ship water over your backside and maybe swamp. Bear in mind, we thot the same thing about the PA when it first came out. I don't know if it has held true on that framework or not. We have a few PA owners here who' i think have had theirs out in the salt so i'll let them address that.

Did not know someone had finally broken the lock on NW dealerships in Washington State. For a long time there were only a very few, most prominently the one i mentioned earlier. My reference to unicorns and zebras was based on that, a backhanded reference to it being almost impossible to find one to demo.   

[WR] Thanks. That was exactly the kind of input that I was after. I will have to give them a call and see what they have.
 

Thanks revjcp. I just realized that the store info came from you. I contacted them and they had one until about a week ago. Just my luck. They do have another Propel kayak, I think he said ultimate that I could try. I still think that I want to try the Mariner. REI sells them on-line with free shipping.?. Still need to get on the water with one to help the decision.

I may be a bit biased since I love my Hobies so much, but I will add to what has been said. If you want a pedal craft that is proven to work for the Pacific NW (and other) fisheries I would stick with the Hobie. The Native may work fantastically, but I do not like being the guinea pig for expensive things.  I understand that they work great on lakes and some people really like them for the ability to reverse.  But, I so rarely have to do that, that I just break out the paddle when the need arrives.  I can see the drive tangling easily in kelp at PC.  With the Mirage drive I just hold the fins tight to the hull and flutter kick through it.  Same with seaweed in lakes.  Also, surf landings are easy, too.  Again, hold the fins tight to the hull and hop out in a couple of inches of water.  The preferable method is to hop out in 2-3 feet of water and pull the drive, but sometimes a wave catches you and moves you along quicker than expected.  At my weight (200 lbs) I can pedal both my Outback and my Adventure (fully loaded) in 1.9 feet of water (according to my FF, YMMV). 

I have also floated parts of the Clackamas looking for winter steelhead.  Again, when I hit quick moving shallow water I just held the fins to the hull and shot on through.  Many spots were less than a foot of water.  The Tualatin has some shallow spots (about 1 foot in the summer) with faster moving water that I can flutter kick up through as well.

Another nice thing about the Hobies, is there are a lot of great shops in this area that you can get parts and service from.  I read a review online where the guy broke his rudder and Native would not sell him just the rudder.  He had to buy the entire rudder assembly for $210.  That could be an issue if the rudder does not go up and down in the surf.  I can't tell if it does by the photos and videos I have seen.

I also wonder what happens if you are pedaling and the line gets tangled it the prop.  I have had a fish take line into my fins, but I just popped the drive up and the line was easily slid off. 

Disclaimer:  I have never used the Native before so I can't offer anything there.  I would love an opportunity to try one just because I am curious, but I don't know where I can conveniently make that happen. Their seating system looks nice and comfy too.  As for it being a drier ride than the Revo I don't know.  Water doesn't concern me so much because I am either wearing a dry suit, waders/drytop combo,  or it is hot out and the spray feels good.  This is a water sport after all.   

We need someone to find a place that we can demo one of these  :

http://www.amazon.com/Nauticraft-Escapade-Pedal-Boat/dp/B0055XOFUS/ref=pd_sim_sbs_sg_3

"Here's Buster Brown, he peddles a shoe........"

That thing looks like a "croc"! I never wanted to wear them, so I know that I don't want to ride in one... Craig, thanks for your insight. No question that Hobie has a number of great boats.  I'm really looking for the opportunity to check one of these.