Can you successfully troll without a down-rigger?

I have read many articles on the advantages of using a down-rigger on a kayak.  I understand that it will help me get down to where the fish are etc etc.  However before I sell another internal organ so I can spend more money on my Kayak I'd really like to hear from people who have had success, even moderate success, without using a down-rigger. 

I have tried to to troll without one but i find I have to load up with so much lead that i struggle to real in my gear even without a fish!  I generally use enough weight to try and get a 45 degree angle in the water.  I am using mono right now and I have been thinking about switching to braid to see if i could reduce the drag therefore weight required.  I figure that at a depth of 60 feet the difference in diameter might make some difference.  Not really sure though.

I'd really like to hear from folks that aren't using a down-rigger and to hear what kind of rig they are using.

Thanks

English.

How deep are you trying to fish? A deep six diver works really well from a kayak, to a point. Where are you fishing?

I think you will find that switching to the much thinner line makes a very noticeable difference.

A deep six diver works really well from a kayak

+1  I caught my first Mackinaw in 200 ft of water (though the fish might not have been that deep) with a Deep Six Diver.

I'm pretty minimalist when it comes to tackle, and it hasn't slowed down my catch rate. But this is my first season at this saltwater fishing from a kayak, so I'm learning every single time I venture out. I troll using one of two things -- the Deep-6 Diver, and something similar called a Longliner (purchased online from an outfit called Angler Innovations). Both have been producing silvers for me, but I like the feel of the Longliner. Not quite so much resistance in the water.  I fish with braid, by the way. I wouldn't have thought that it made much difference.  See, learning ALL the time.   

A deep six diver works really well from a kayak

+1  I caught my first Mackinaw in 200 ft of water (though the fish might not have been that deep) with a Deep Six Diver.

You got a Deep Six to go down to 200 feet or that was the depth of the water ?    Is that with the #2 Double Deep models ?

I was reading a thread from a different forum where one guy claims to troll at very deep depths with what he described as a "Slow the Go" method.   
To get the depth of troll he was after typically would take much heavier weights or a down rigger he didn't want to deal with.   He would use a modest weight and with a good amount  of line out, row very slowly.  The very slow pace would allow his gear to sink down towards the bottom of his target zone without tangling around itself..    Once there, he would then pick up the pace to typical trolling speeds for a bit which would soon bring his hear up above his desired target zone.   He stated he got a few hits while his gear was on it's way down.
I am thinking to give this method a try as I hate seeing my rod doubled over just pulling lead around.

I'm pretty minimalist when it comes to tackle, and it hasn't slowed down my catch rate. But this is my first season at this saltwater fishing from a kayak, so I'm learning every single time I venture out. I troll using one of two things -- the Deep-6 Diver, and something similar called a Longliner (purchased online from an outfit called Angler Innovations). Both have been producing silvers for me, but I like the feel of the Longliner. Not quite so much resistance in the water.  I fish with braid, by the way. I wouldn't have thought that it made much difference.  See, learning ALL the time.

+1 on the Longliner. I haven't fished it yet for salmon but i used it this summer for brute trout and it works really well. And for the price, you can't beat it.
Paul


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It was a double deep six.  I said I was in 200 feet of water, but the fish might not have been that deep.  There's no way to tell with a diver.

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English,
As you can see, the simple answer is , YES. there are alternate and effective ways to do without a downrigger.

I was reading a thread from a different forum where one guy claims to troll at very deep depths with what he described as a "Slow the Go" method.   
To get the depth of troll he was after typically would take much heavier weights or a down rigger he didn't want to deal with.   He would use a modest weight and with a good amount  of line out, row very slowly.  The very slow pace would allow his gear to sink down towards the bottom of his target zone without tangling around itself..    Once there, he would then pick up the pace to typical trolling speeds for a bit which would soon bring his hear up above his desired target zone.   He stated he got a few hits while his gear was on it's way down.
I am thinking to give this method a try as I hate seeing my rod doubled over just pulling lead around.

Personally I think under 30 ft, a downrigger is close to mandatory.  But the "Slow the Go" basically describes power mooching where in a power boat you mooch while kicking the boat in and out of gear.  Its a VERY effective method of fishing with two drawbacks.  You don't cover as much water which is the main benefit of trolling in my opinion and there are a few species that get "turned on" by fast moving baits.  I think of tuna and cohos.

But if you are on a budget, its better than not fishing.  as long as your hook is in the water, you ALWAYS have a chance.

I have gotten fish with and without a downrigger. I have to say though, using a DR on a kayak is a real pain in the ass. It adds a whole new dimension to the gear factor. So you gotta weigh the hassle against the potential benefit, and its usually too much hassle

For me, it has a very specific application. That is, if the fish I'm targeting are in less than 60 ft of water, AND are striking at a very specific depth ...say, 45 ft. In other words, sockeye.

Any deeper than 60 you have to use too much lead to stay down, and will tire quickly.

but, other kayak fisherman swear by 'em. Whatever gear gives you confidence to catch the fish, go with it!

Dipsey Diver. Takes lures down and also tracks to port or starboard. We use them to troll four rods at a time without tangles to more than 100'.

I've had good luck with a three way small spreader /swivel to 18" lighter line to a 6 to 8 oz. lead ball at the other side of the 3way 2 feet of line to a flasher and then to a BRAD's stuffed with (oil in can tuna) but thats at a slack tide , Hard to paddle the current here in the river once it get's to flowing. my last two fish caught in a 20 min gap at change of tides. but I was trolling.see AOTY fish

Thanks for all the replies.   I generally fish out of golden gardens in my yellow ocean kayak (torque).  I think perhaps i will take a closer look at the deep six diver mentioned above.  I'd be interested to know how you folks are rigging it though.

Currently i rig similar to this:  http://www.leeroysramblings.com/estuarysalmon_rigging.htm

I use an 18" dropper to the weight, banana or cannonball.  I put about 48" of mono between the main swivel and the flasher.  I put about the same amount of mono between the flasher and the lure.  I have been using trolling spoons.

So far i haven't caught a bloody thing so clearly i have some room for improvement...

you said your using a brads, the one I used was a watermellon color red and green w dots , and take the little scent sponge and toss that, and Suff it full of canned tuna.the kind packed in tuna oil..Your rig other wise sound's just like mine. i use a deep six also but mostly from bigger fast boats..good luck .up till the other day I thought I had done something wrong too.