Scotty Lake Troller vs Depthmaster vs Depthinking

Scotty Lake Troller vs Depthmaster vs Depthinking. Please ignore the price difference between them for now. Price isn't a key factor.

Which one of these 3 downriggers to get for a Wilderness Ride 135, which is wide, very stable and heavy fishing kayak?

And what would be the best way to install it on the kayak? To bolt it down it directly onto the kayak (Location #1, see attached pic) or to assemble a PVC structure inspired by Demonick and mount downrigger a top of that structure (Location #2)?

I'm curious if Scotty has a "detachable" base, so I can bolt down the base only and attach (in a way) downrigger to the base when I need it and detach it when I don't plan trolling.

Any thoughts would be super highly appreciated!



Thanks.

Alex.

Here is the link to  a product review Zee did on the Scotty Depth master....it's well written and thorough.  http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?page=37   it's also found by going to NWKA's home page and then click on page #2.

I for one, ended up buying this model (1050) and IMO it's vastly superior to the Scotty Lake Troll and Canon's Mini-troll.
You can see where Zee mounted his unit......due to old age and lack of flexibility, I can't turn around to operate the down rigger ala Zee......I now have a PA-14 and have my Scotty Depth Master mounted to the left "black mounting board"....I did need to add a couple of braces to keep the board from twisting/moving.
And yes, the depth master does have a detachable base.

How deep do you want to troll?  How heavy of a ball do you want to be able to use?  If you want to be able to troll deep with a heavy ball, that might encourage you to get the Depthmaster or the Depthking rather than the Laketroller.  If a four pound ball is all you need, the Laketroller will work fine. 

If you decide to get the Laketroller, consider replacing the side/deck mount (Part No. 241) which comes with the downrigger with a flush mount (Part No. 244).

Regardless of which downrigger you choose, be sure to mount it in a position where it doesn't interfere with paddling.  For example, before deciding to mount the downrigger behind your hip, clamp it temporarily in place and be sure that you aren't going to whack your elbow, wrist, or paddle on the cable drum, crank handle, pulley arm, or cable.  The Depthmaster and Depthking are pretty big, which limits where you can mount them.  The Laketroller is smaller, and thus easier to mount in a location which doesn't interfere with paddling.

Regardless of which downrigger you choose, be sure to mount it in a position where you can operate the crank and the brake conveniently and comfortably with one hand without changing position in your kayak, because in some situations you may need or want to change the depth of the ball pretty frequently.  If you mount the downrigger directly behind your seat, you'll probably need to turn sidewise in your kayak with your feet in the water in order to operate the downrigger, which will delay your response to changes in the depth of the bottom or the location of fish in the water column, or will discourage you from changing the depth of your ball, and will also stop your kayak each time you need to adjust your downrigger.  If you decide to mount the downrigger someplace behind your seat, you probably shouldn't get the Laketroller, because in that location it would require two hands to operate - one hand on the crank handle, and the other hand to loosen and tighten the nut which stops the cable reel.  On the other hand, if you decide to mount the downrigger next to your leg, you can stop the cable reel of a Laketroller by leaning your leg on it, which allows you to operate the Laketroller with one hand.

I suggest that you find a way to mount the downrigger so its pulley is only an inch or so from the side of your kayak.  The further the pulley is from the side of your kayak, the more the drag of the cable and ball will make your kayak veer to the side on which the pulley is located, and the tippier the downrigger will make your kayak.  In addition, I suggest that you put the pulley in a location where it's easy for you to grab the ball and/or the downrigger release without changing position in your seat.  If you can't put the pulley in a suitable location by moving or rotating the base of the downrigger, consider shortening the arm of the downrigger.

Have you considered mounting the downrigger in the center of your kayak between your ankles or your calves, if that wouldn't interfere with your view of your fish finder?  It would be easy to lean forward to operate the downrigger.  The arm of the downrigger would extend over your ankle or leg, so you would need to be sure there is enough clearance so you can quickly pull your leg out from under the arm so you can turn sideways in your kayak when playing in a fish, or when getting out of the kayak.  And be sure the arm of the downrigger won't trap you in the kayak if the kayak flips over.

I provided my thoughts about the issues to consider when mounting a downrigger on a kayak in a posting at http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=11486.0 .

And this:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/54098312/kayak/HMR/Downrigger/00.HMR.Downrigger.Mount.html

Ignore everything except my decision to go with the Scotty DepthMaster with line counter and separate mount.  I use a 6 pound ball in the salt and it is a good compromise size for Puget Sound.

The PVC mount has been modified, but the webpage has not been updated. Turns out the long rear brace is not necessary, and a couple 8" risers are very handy rod/net holders.

Here is the link to  a product review Zee did on the Scotty Depth master....it's well written and thorough.  http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?page=37   it's also found by going to NWKA's home page and then click on page #2.

I for one, ended up buying this model (1050) and IMO it's vastly superior to the Scotty Lake Troll and Canon's Mini-troll.
You can see where Zee mounted his unit......due to old age and lack of flexibility, I can't turn around to operate the down rigger ala Zee......I now have a PA-14 and have my Scotty Depth Master mounted to the left "black mounting board"....I did need to add a couple of braces to keep the board from twisting/moving.
And yes, the depth master does have a detachable base.

Thank you for the information! I know about Zee's article. In fact, I use that article and Demonick's dropbox article as 2 kayak downrigger installation manuals.

How deep do you want to troll?  How heavy of a ball do you want to be able to use?

I do not know. I never actually trolled before. I tried to troll with crescent sinker, but it didn't work at all - I just couldn't control the rod. I guess I just don't know how to use crescent sinker, but I decided to go with a downrigger. And since I prefer salt over fresh any moment day or night, I think that I will have to use 6#s as Zee and Demonick advice.

If you decide to get the Laketroller, consider replacing the side/deck mount (Part No. 241) which comes with the downrigger with a flush mount (Part No. 244).

Your installation is the only reason why I keep considering Lake Troller. You made it in a really handy way. So I was thinking - what if I won't be able to bend that far back to operate the downrigger, and look - a guy uses Lake Troller with no visible problems.

Regardless of which downrigger you choose, be sure to mount it in a position where it doesn't interfere with paddling.  For example, before deciding to mount the downrigger behind your hip, clamp it temporarily in place and be sure that you aren't going to whack your elbow, wrist, or paddle on the cable drum, crank handle, pulley arm, or cable.  The Depthmaster and Depthking are pretty big, which limits where you can mount them.  The Laketroller is smaller, and thus easier to mount in a location which doesn't interfere with paddling.

Regardless of which downrigger you choose, be sure to mount it in a position where you can operate the crank and the brake conveniently and comfortably with one hand without changing position in your kayak, because in some situations you may need or want to change the depth of the ball pretty frequently.  If you mount the downrigger directly behind your seat, you'll probably need to turn sidewise in your kayak with your feet in the water in order to operate the downrigger, which will delay your response to changes in the depth of the bottom or the location of fish in the water column, or will discourage you from changing the depth of your ball, and will also stop your kayak each time you need to adjust your downrigger.  If you decide to mount the downrigger someplace behind your seat, you probably shouldn't get the Laketroller, because in that location it would require two hands to operate - one hand on the crank handle, and the other hand to loosen and tighten the nut which stops the cable reel.  On the other hand, if you decide to mount the downrigger next to your leg, you can stop the cable reel of a Laketroller by leaning your leg on it, which allows you to operate the Laketroller with one hand.

I suggest that you find a way to mount the downrigger so its pulley is only an inch or so from the side of your kayak.  The further the pulley is from the side of your kayak, the more the drag of the cable and ball will make your kayak veer to the side on which the pulley is located, and the tippier the downrigger will make your kayak.  In addition, I suggest that you put the pulley in a location where it's easy for you to grab the ball and/or the downrigger release without changing position in your seat.  If you can't put the pulley in a suitable location by moving or rotating the base of the downrigger, consider shortening the arm of the downrigger.

Have you considered mounting the downrigger in the center of your kayak between your ankles or your calves, if that wouldn't interfere with your view of your fish finder?  It would be easy to lean forward to operate the downrigger.  The arm of the downrigger would extend over your ankle or leg, so you would need to be sure there is enough clearance so you can quickly pull your leg out from under the arm so you can turn sideways in your kayak when playing in a fish, or when getting out of the kayak.  And be sure the arm of the downrigger won't trap you in the kayak if the kayak flips over.

Thank you so much for this very valuable information! I will have to re-read it a couple of times, so I can absorb it better. The only thing I'm sure about it that I don't want to install it between my legs, as I don't want to find escape from the kayak in case of capsize. One has about 60-120 seconds to get from under a capsized vessel. I know how it is, I sailed a Laser and capsized more times than I want to remember.

I provided my thoughts about the issues to consider when mounting a downrigger on a kayak in a posting at http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=11486.0 .

I know about it! I read it with a great interest! Thank you!

And this:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/54098312/kayak/HMR/Downrigger/00.HMR.Downrigger.Mount.html

Ignore everything except my decision to go with the Scotty DepthMaster with line counter and separate mount.  I use a 6 pound ball in the salt and it is a good compromise size for Puget Sound.

The PVC mount has been modified, but the webpage has not been updated. Turns out the long rear brace is not necessary, and a couple 8" risers are very handy rod/net holders.

What do you mean "Ignore everything"?? This is my pretty much downrigger installation bible!

If you can - please update the article, it is very useful and it provides a great deal of details on how and what and why to do this or that.

Thank you for that article. By the way - why you keep it on Dropbox? Why you just don't publish it on NWKA, something like "Downrigger installation - Demonick way"? And as you introduce new upgrades just to either update original article, or to write new mini-articles and link them all.

The only thing I'm sure about it that I don't want to install it between my legs, as I don't want to find escape from the kayak in case of capsize. One has about 60-120 seconds to get from under a capsized vessel. I know how it is, I sailed a Laser and capsized more times than I want to remember.

Don't write off the idea of installing the downrigger between your legs until you have tried it.  Bring your kayak to the store and set the downrigger and its base on top of the platform between the foot wells.  There should be quite a bit of clearance between your ankle and the downrigger arm.  I have owned a lot of whitewater kayaks which had short cockpits and intrusive thigh braces, and they didn't keep me from getting in and out of the kayak.  If the downrigger arm is over your ankle, it shouldn't cause you any problems if you flip your kayak.  As you move the downrigger closer to you, it will be easier to turn the crank, but as the arm moves further up your shin, you are more likely to crack your shin on the arm when you lean forward to turn the crank.  If you move the downrigger up to your knee, it will probably get in the way of getting in and out of the kayak, so I wouldn't recommend that.  Experiment with the location and see what you think.  I suspect that you will find that the downrigger will be easier to operate when located between your ankles than it will be to operate when located behind one of your hips.  And I suspect that the downrigger will be very inconvenient to operate if you locate it directly behind your seat.

Is your fish finder already mounted on your kayak?  If not, you have more flexiblity about where you mount the downrigger.  You could mount the fish finder between your legs and in front of the downrigger, as long as the two pieces of equipment don't interfere with getting in and out of the kayak.  Or you can mount the fish finder on the side of your kayak towards which the downrigger arm and your trolling rod are pointing, which will make it easier for you to keep an eye on the tip of your rod and the fish finder at the same time.

I am confident that once you install a downrigger, you are going to like it.  They are easy to use, and it's really nice to be able to troll deep, and to have precise control over the depth at which you are trolling, so you can run your lure right over or through a school of fish, or fly it right above the bottom.

I use a downrigger quite a bit as it just is the most effective way to fish pretty much all types of gear in depths of 20ft or more.  For me the biggest drawback is simply the drag it creates.  I started with a 6lbs ball and it was way too light for the gear and currents I fish in.  8lbs minimum for me.  I use big flashers and fish in currents of up to 5 knts. 

I use a Penn but I'd go with something that can handle more than 4lbs if you are using it in saltwater. 

Here's my set up:


Most recent success was in Valdez where I got lucky enough to run into a big school of cohos.
http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=11741.0

Thank you everyone for you help and input. Once again, special thank you to pmmpete!

I decided to go with Depthmaster. I carefully read all posts related to downrigger installation. I wanted my setup to have a few features:
#1. Cheap;
#2. Easy dismountable;
#3. No hull piercing;
#4. Easy to scrap and start over.

So, I thought out to install YakAttack slide tracks and mount a structure a top of the tracks. What kind of structure? Initially I wanted to make something out of PVC pipes. Then I tried to find a high strength piece of plastic. And finally I decided that I want to use just a wood plank.

I went to Lowe's but a plank of a width I needed costs $27. So I decided to buy a narrow plank and just to use 2 pieces (I'm kinda regret of this decision).

Bottom line. Slide track - $45 (+ shipping), plank $3, stainless steel bolts, nuts and screws ~$5.

I will post an update once I will try it. This is not a final version.

Coldfusion, I think you'll find it awkward and uncomfortable to operate your downrigger if you mount it behind your seat.  And if you use the rod holder on the downrigger to hold your rod, you'll need to constantly look over your shoulder to monitor the tip of the rod for strikes, which will also be awkward and uncomfortable.  Nangusdog mounted a Depthmaster downrigger on the tray on the left gunwale of his Outback, right in front of the rudder control.  A picture of that mount is in http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=11954.0 , Reply 14.  If you don't want to shorten the boom of your Depthmaster, you could mount it with the boom facing almost straight back, so the cable is only an inch or so from the side of your kayak.  If you shorten the boom, you could mount the downrigger on either the left tray or the right tray. 

I described one way to shorten the boom of a Depthmaster downrigger in http://www.northwestkayakanglers.com/index.php?topic=11954.0 .  I'm working on a easier way to shorten the boom of a Depthmaster which uses the base for the rod holder which comes mounted on the boom of the dowrigger, and a Harken block (a sailboat pulley).  If it works out, I'll put a description on this forum.

I notice you have decided to mount the downrigger on a Hobie Outback rather than your Wilderness Ride 135.

Hello pmmpete.

I've sold the Ride and got an Outback. I wish I could have a Ride with Mirage Drive...

I agree with you, that it will be awkward to operate. What I don't really like in the installation on a side (vs installation in the middle) is weight and capsizing force distribution in a such installation. I want all weight to be located as close to kayak's middle and centerline as possible. And I want all forces which might contribute to kayak capsize to be applied to as close to the centerline of the kayak as possible.

I had a crazy idea to dismount boom from the downrigger, to install base and cable wheel somewhere next to me, to install detached boom near the stern of the kayak and to wire cable from the wheel to the boom. But in this case I will need to pierce the yak, which I try to avoid.

Rod holder is my least concern right now... I can (and likely will) add a separate rod holder on the right or left track behind me, so tip of the rod will extend forward and will be easily visible.


Thank you for the input though...!

What I don't really like in the installation on a side (vs installation in the middle) is weight and capsizing force distribution in a such installation. I want all weight to be located as close to kayak's middle and centerline as possible. And I want all forces which might contribute to kayak capsize to be applied to as close to the centerline of the kayak as possible.

I've mounted a Depthmaster on the right gunwale of my 13' Revolution, which is narrower and tipier feeling than an Outback, which is several inches wider.  I can't feel any effect from the weight of the downrigger.  This may be because I put the battery for my fishfinder on the left side of the Revolution, to balance out the weight of the downrigger.  I think you don't need to worry about the weight of the downrigger making your Outback more likely to capsize.  The downrigger's weight is only a small percentage of your weight.  I suggest that you mount the downrigger where it will be easiest to use, which is on the gunwale next to one of your thighs.

I also suggest that you not worry about drilling a couple of bolt holes in your kayak to install the downrigger.  If you drill the holes small enough that the bolts cut threads in the plastic of the hull, the bolts will be waterproof even if you don't seal them with a sealant.  Certainly more waterproof than the front hatch and the two round access hatches!

Coldfusion, I think you'll find it awkward and uncomfortable to operate your downrigger if you mount it behind your seat.

Agree 100% with pmmpete! I had my scotty 1050 depthmaster mounted behind my seat for the better part of the season and although it worked well, it took up precious tank well space and precluded me from using my beloved milk crate setup. Maintaining fwd momentum while deploying and retrieving gear was awkward and resembled more of a gymnastics routine and reaching back behind myself to operate it was hard on my shoulders...HATED it!!!
After seeing pmmpete's brilliant idea, I adapted it to the Outback and am absolutely thrilled with the results! takes up nearly zero usable space and puts the downrigger in the perfect spot...deploying, retrieving and monitoring your gear as well as making minor depth adjustments on the fly is a breeze.  It takes ten seconds to install or remove and leaves nothing behind when removed...the installation is rock solid with absolutely zero CG issues or "tipiness" in this location...LOVE it!!!

I'm sold, just waiting for one of you guys to come up with some sort of plastic that can be poured into the cup holder to mount the down rigger through, for the plug.