testing boat (paddler) limits

Here is an example of moderate oil canning on the bottom of a whitewater kayak, which developed into a crease, and which then abraded through in the middle of a four day kayak trip.









I did a 9 day whitewater kayak trip on the Rio Atengo in Mexico in a kayak which I had borrowed from Rocky Contos.  This kayak had been hammered by years of Class V kayaking, and its bottom had some serious oil canning with a high point under the seat.  During my trip, two holes developed under the seat.  I had to take the seat out and seal the holes from the inside with raft patch fabric and vinyl glue from my repair kit.  For pictures of that trip, the upper half of which was a first descent and the lower half of which was a second descent, see http://www.sierrarios.org/PagesGeneral/SlideshowLinks.html , Sierra Madre Occidental, Atengo 1-Atengo 3.  I took most of the pictures in that slide show.

I know for a fact that my T13 did not have negative rocker.  And it has never come up in conversations with OK sales and marketing, and believe me, rocker comes up quite often when we talk about various kayaks, so I would remember any mention of negative rocker. I'm willing to bet a coke that it is not designed with negative rocker.

I bought my 13’ Trident in the spring of 2010.  It has negative rocker.  Here are pictures of a friend’s 13’ Trident, which he bought a couple of years later, showing ¾” of negative rocker.  Next time I go to my cabin, I’ll take pictures of my Trident, which will show the same negative rocker.







Polepole, when and where can I arrange to pick up my coke?

I haven't paddled an 11' Trident, but pictures on the internet suggest that they don't have negative rocker.

Polepole, when and where can I arrange to pick up my coke?

Showing pictures of kayaks with negative rocker does not prove they were designed to have negative rocker.  Let's wait for word from the factory.  Although I'll admit that the evidence is mounting ...

I'll gladly ship you a bottle of prime Mexican coke should it pan out that they were indeed designed with negative rocker.

-Allen

I got an "I will find out!" from the factory.  So ... stay tuned.

-Allen

I look forward to seeing how Ocean Kayak decides to describe the design of the hull of its 13' Trident.  I appreciate that the term "negative rocker" sounds kind of . . . negative.  They'll probably call it something like "enhanced keel."  I should emphasize that I think that the 13' Trident is an excellent fishing kayak, and I've been very satisfied with it.  However, because it turns slowly, it isn't a good choice for a river which involves a lot of maneuvering.

Designing a kayak requires design choices and compromises.  Whitewater kayaks are highly maneuverable, but they don't track well and require constant small course corrections.  Whitewater playboats can perform all kinds of exotic tricks in holes, but aren't very stable.  Kayaks which are wide and stable are usually also slow.  When Ocean Kayak designed the 13' Trident, it clearly decided to emphasize good tracking.

Oh I don't think negative rocker is a bad thing.  I'm just surprised at this because I've never heard it discussed.  It could even have been a good thing from a marketing point of view if so chosen.

The T13 is one of the best yaks out there, certailyn OK's most versatile kayak.  I like it better than the 4.3, which  for me, has too much rocker.  And definitely an upgrade from the older Prowler 13's.

BTW, it doesn't turn slowly.  It turns slower than it could, but comparable to other kayaks in its class, it certainly isn't a slow turner.  But yeah, for the river, it is slow.  I never thought the the T11 was all that in a river kayak either, although some expound it to be, and I make due with it on one (although I need to switch over to the Predator MX one of these days once I get it rigged right).

-Allen

I've owned almost a dozen SOT  kayaks and I still have my first, a 2002 OK Caper, because it has out preformed everything else I've owned when it comes to rivers.   My Predator 13 does okay, and a Predator MX might get to me to let go of the Caper.

I want to hear what the factory says.  This should be good...

The predator mx looks really cool, but the heavy weight makes me think that it's meant for big lazy water. I don't have any complaints with my T11, (I like it better than my coosa) but I'm still hoping a better tool will show up. Is that the MX?

No expert here, but I just shopped for a T13 and it's supposed to have a flat bottom with no rocker at all, neither positive nor negative/  But I'll be happy to hear the definitive answer from OK.

Here is my 13’ Trident.  The negative rocker is obvious even from a distance.



I taped a piece of black cord to the keel to more clearly show the negative rocker:







Polepole, where’s my coke!

Here is my 13’ Trident.  The negative rocker is obvious even from a distance.



I taped a piece of black cord to the keel to more clearly show the negative rocker:







Polepole, where’s my coke!

The bottom of that boat looks pushed in. Would be interesting to look at a brand new boat out of the mold.

My T-13 has "custom rocker". I left it on the cart once and went away for a two week trip. The temps. got in the high 90's for a few days while we were gone. In our metal barn, I am sure it got over 100 degrees a number of times.  When we got back it had kind of drooped over the cart quite noticeably. I should have taken pictures and filed this under "Don't ask me how I know". I had to make an elaborate frame that kind of duplicated the shape of my cart except on the inside of the kayak , weighed it down with a lot of bricks, and poured several five gallon buckets of hot tap water inside. It went back to almost normal within a few minutes but it has never been quite the same. It's my wife's boat now anyways and I don't think she knows or cares.

Polepole, where’s my coke!

You been snorting it?  Just because your boat has negative rocker doesn't mean it was designed with negative rocker.  No word from the factory yet.

As Fungunnin says, that yak looks pushed in.  Indeed, it looks pushed in in 2 places, very similar to  oil canning caused by saddles or by straps cinched too tightly.  That being said, the racks on that car you have it on don't align to the indentations.  Have you always had it on those particular racks?  Or have you used others.

-Allen

OK ... I'm lazy I don't want to take my kayak down just for pictures. So I took some pictures while it was still hanging. My 2013 Trident 13 does not have negative rocker. The keel runs straight down the boat. My older Prowler 13 looks pushed in, like your boat. The new boat came after I got my Hobie so it has only seen 2 maybe 3 trips as a loaner boat.
Even the string hung below the kayak presses firmly against the hull.