testing boat (paddler) limits

Short story.

I like to test limits. They are often way past where we think the are . I wanted to see if my t 13 could handle white water....yes it can...then I tried to paddle against the current...cause you know...I'm stupid. The first 10 feet went fine. Then I lost momentum. The keel caught the current and turned me sideways. Not a problem., I braced and began to turn, then hit a dead head. The leading edge of the boat dug in like a plow. Quick reflexes and white water experience saved my arse. Dug deep..popped my hip as best I could and slid off the log.    I decided to port around that section. Close one for sure. All I lost was my net....don't be
me.

Its always worth testing if the rules of natural selection apply to you at least once. If you test them twice you are an idiot 

Its always worth testing if the rules of natural selection apply to you at least once. If you test them twice you are an idiot 

So true. I learned. Now I know. Keels + white water+ upstream equals bad sauce. Downstream was great. Upstream... Not so much.

The 13' Trident handles running straight through whitewater pretty well, just like it handles going out through surf pretty well.  However, it isn't very maneuverable, because it has negative rocker.  The keel  sits deeper in the water at the bow and stern than it does in the center of the kayak.  As a result, it tracks well, but turns with the nimbleness and agility of an oil tanker.  So if you want to run rapids in it, you need to figure out routes through the rapids which involve as little turning as possible.  If you are an experienced whitewater paddler you can try to use the negative rocker when doing eddy turns and peel-outs in spots where there is plenty of room to turn a 13' kayak.  But if you want to run a river which requires much maneuvering, I'd choose something other than a 13' Trident.

The 13' Trident handles running straight through whitewater pretty well, just like it handles going out through surf pretty well.  However, it isn't very maneuverable, because it has negative rocker.  The keel  sits deeper in the water at the bow and stern than it does in the center of the kayak.  As a result, it tracks well, but turns with the nimbleness and agility of an oil tanker.  So if you want to run rapids in it, you need to figure out routes through the rapids which involve as little turning as possible.  If you are an experienced whitewater paddler you can try to use the negative rocker when doing eddy turns and peel-outs in spots where there is plenty of room to turn a 13' kayak.  But if you want to run a river which requires much maneuvering, I'd choose something other than a 13' Trident.

If you have negative rocker on your T13, I think something is wrong.  I don't think it is supposed to be that way.

-Allen

If you have negative rocker on your T13, I think something is wrong.  I don't think it is supposed to be that way.

My 13' Trident and all of the other 13’ Tridents which I’ve seen have negative rocker, and the kayak is clearly designed to have negative rocker.  Pictures showing the negative rocker can be seen at http://www.watersportsngear.com/product/ocean-kayak-trident-13-angler-kayak-city-portage-package-camo-2014/ , http://www.kayakcity.com/ocean-kayak-trident-13-angler-package-deals/ , and http://www.kayakfishingsupplies.com/servlet/the-1143/Ocean-Kayak-Trident-13/Detail .  Double click on the picture at   http://www.manchester-canoes-and-kayaks.co.uk/fishing-kayaks/ocean-kayak-trident-13-angler.htm for a bigger picture which shows the negative rocker. 

A picture indicating that in 1913 the 15’ Trident also had negative rocker is at http://www.cornwall-canoes.co.uk/ocean-kayak-prowler-trident-15.htm , and a picture indicating that the Trident Ultra 4.7 has positive rocker is at http://www.cornwall-canoes.co.uk/ocean-kayak-trident-prowler-ultra-4.7.htm . If you click on the latter picture, it’ll enlarge.

Yup, my T-13 paddles straight as an arrow, however it too has negative rocker. 

The 13' Trident handles running straight through whitewater pretty well, just like it handles going out through surf pretty well.  However, it isn't very maneuverable, because it has negative rocker.  The keel  sits deeper in the water at the bow and stern than it does in the center of the kayak.  As a result, it tracks well, but turns with the nimbleness and agility of an oil tanker.  So if you want to run rapids in it, you need to figure out routes through the rapids which involve as little turning as possible.  If you are an experienced whitewater paddler you can try to use the negative rocker when doing eddy turns and peel-outs in spots where there is plenty of room to turn a 13' kayak.  But if you want to run a river which requires much maneuvering, I'd choose something other than a 13' Trident.

I knew that when I bought the boat.  Way back when I was first shopping, I asked all you guys what boat I should be looking at based on what I wan to be able to do.  T13 was at the top of the list.  I am happy with my purchase,  I just wanted to know what trying to force a ocean boat around in current  would feel like.  No problem going down stream.  Up was nearly impossible.

If you have negative rocker on your T13, I think something is wrong.  I don't think it is supposed to be that way.

My 13' Trident and all of the other 13’ Tridents which I’ve seen have negative rocker, and the kayak is clearly designed to have negative rocker.  Pictures showing the negative rocker can be seen at http://www.watersportsngear.com/product/ocean-kayak-trident-13-angler-kayak-city-portage-package-camo-2014/ , http://www.kayakcity.com/ocean-kayak-trident-13-angler-package-deals/ , and http://www.kayakfishingsupplies.com/servlet/the-1143/Ocean-Kayak-Trident-13/Detail .  Double click on the picture at   http://www.manchester-canoes-and-kayaks.co.uk/fishing-kayaks/ocean-kayak-trident-13-angler.htm for a bigger picture which shows the negative rocker.

That being said, the picture of a T13 on the Ocean Kayak site does not show negative rocker.  In fact, it shows a slight rocker.

I know for a fact that my T13 did not have negative rocker.  And it has never come up in conversations with OK sales and marketing, and believe me, rocker comes up quite often when we talk about various kayaks, so I would remember any mention of negative rocker.

I'm willing to bet a coke that it is not designed with negative rocker.  That being said, the Trident probably have the least rocker of any Ocean Kayak boats.  The slightest bit of oil canning would lead to the impression of negative rocker.

-Allen

If you have negative rocker on your T13, I think something is wrong.  I don't think it is supposed to be that way.

My 13' Trident and all of the other 13’ Tridents which I’ve seen have negative rocker, and the kayak is clearly designed to have negative rocker.  Pictures showing the negative rocker can be seen at http://www.watersportsngear.com/product/ocean-kayak-trident-13-angler-kayak-city-portage-package-camo-2014/ , http://www.kayakcity.com/ocean-kayak-trident-13-angler-package-deals/ , and http://www.kayakfishingsupplies.com/servlet/the-1143/Ocean-Kayak-Trident-13/Detail .  Double click on the picture at   http://www.manchester-canoes-and-kayaks.co.uk/fishing-kayaks/ocean-kayak-trident-13-angler.htm for a bigger picture which shows the negative rocker.

That being said, the picture of a T13 on the Ocean Kayak site does not show negative rocker.  In fact, it shows a slight rocker.

I know for a fact that my T13 did not have negative rocker.  And it has never come up in conversations with OK sales and marketing, and believe me, rocker comes up quite often when we talk about various kayaks, so I would remember any mention of negative rocker.

I'm willing to bet a coke that it is not designed with negative rocker.  That being said, the Trident probably have the least rocker of any Ocean Kayak boats.  The slightest bit of oil canning would lead to the impression of negative rocker.

-Allen

I will settle this next time I go out.  I will put my boat on the garage floor, put the camera on the floor next to it and take a picture...

I will settle this next time I go out.  I will put my boat on the garage floor, put the camera on the floor next to it and take a picture...

That's not going to settling it in my mind.  As I said, the slightest bit of oil canning will turn it into negative rocker.  In fact, I took my T11 out yesterday.  It has negative rocker, courtesy of the previous owner.   

I'll drop the Ocean Kayak marketing director a note and get the word from the factory.

-Allen

Dumb question but what exactly is oil canning

This is link shows a basic oil can   https://img0.etsystatic.com/040/2/7361428/il_340x270.569757094_p1uw.jpg
You operate it by tilting the spout to the desired location in need of oil and depress the bottom of the container......the thin metal will slightly deform inward to dispense the liquid oil through the spout.
In the case of the kayak bottom surface, it has indented inward (concave) and has become "oil canned"......

I will settle this next time I go out.  I will put my boat on the garage floor, put the camera on the floor next to it and take a picture...

A clearer way to show the negative rocker would be to tape a piece of cord to the keel at the bow and the stern, and then take a picture while holding a ruler to show the distance between the keel and the cord at the center of the kayak.  My Trident is at my cabin, so I won't be able to do that until next weekend.

I know what oil canning looks like, and this isn't oil canning.  The negative rocker is part of the design of the kayak.

I will settle this next time I go out.  I will put my boat on the garage floor, put the camera on the floor next to it and take a picture...

A clearer way to show the negative rocker would be to tape a piece of cord to the keel at the bow and the stern, and then take a picture while holding a ruler to show the distance between the keel and the cord at the center of the kayak.  My Trident is at my cabin, so I won't be able to do that until next weekend.

I know what oil canning looks like, and this isn't oil canning.  The negative rocker is part of the design of the kayak.

Nice tip on measuring rocker.  So I went out and did it to my supposed negative rocker T11.  Guess what, it isn't negative rocker, although there is one narrow spot of oil canning.  Sorry, no pics as it is dark right now and the pics didn't come out well.  I'll take another shot in the morning.

I'm guessing the flat middle and keeled ends give the illusion of negative rocket.  Hmm ...

-Allen