Anker battery issues

Lead acid batteries can last about 4 to 5 years if you take care of them.  You should be able to get 3 years at the very least. Keep it on a smart trickle charger during longer periods of non-use.

My elite 5hdi is supposed to have a typical draw of 1.1A per hour.  You could be right about the lower draw.  Usually you try to conserve battery by turning down the brightness; instead I find it cuts out less if I keep it at 10 and mess with the menu features.

Just ordered a 10AH SLA for my main source and if I need an extra I'll pack a separate dry bag with a back up. Anybody know how long typically an SLA battery lasts?  I've read its worth replacing them every 1 to 2 years, otherwise you're using a degraded battery.

Well, first theory, then experience:   Theory - Flooded lead acid batteries will last for more cycles than sealed batteries (up to 1000 if you cycle them only moderately deeply, keep fluids topped up, etc), but you wouldn't take a flooded cell out kayaking, so best to use a sealed lead acid (SLA).   SLA's can get up to 200 to 300 charge cycles if cycling them deeply (i.e. 80% of useful range), so that can be years depending on how often you use them.  You get less life if you discharge them deeply and much worse if you discharge them fully, its generally better to discharge only 60% or less.  So it's a good idea to recharge between trips out.   Its also important to store them fully charged, and recharge them occasionally if you don't fish year round.   If you are going to store an SLA for a few months, check and re-charge it every two or three months is a good rule of thumb. 

Experience.   I have two 8AH SLAs in my kits now.  One is about two years old, the other is about a year old.  Both hold a charge really well still, but I doubt I have more than 150 charge cycles on the older one, and less than 30 on the newer one.  At the peak of my season I was out several times in a week, much less over the winter.   Keys to long life are:  Keep your battery cool, recharge when you can, and always store them charged - they degrade if you store them discharged.  You don't need to leave them on the trickle charger, but they WILL self discharge about 20-30% over a year, I think.   With the smaller SLAs I have not been checking much, but you got me curious, so I just now checked my wife's 8AH SLA.  Her last use and charge was NOV. 03, '15.  It still shows 12.89 volts, and she fishes less, so I am expecting to get a few more years out of her battery for sure.   If you see a fast self-discharge rate while stored and you don't seem to be getting the AH's rated for the battery when in use, it can be a sign your battery is getting a bit old.  My experience with my older battery from just a couple months ago - I charged it, fished around 8 hours on day 1, didn't charge it overnight, and fished around 5 to 6 hours on day 2, and checked voltage just before putting it on the charger when I got home.   It had dropped from 12.9 fully charged to 12.3 after 13 hours of fishing, so I am hoping to get another couple years out of it too. 

I haven't put a meter on an Elite 5 in the last year, but my friends manual specification for his said that it draws  0.4A with backlight off, and 0.79 with backlight on.   Not much help there, I know, best to just see how many hours you can go without dropping to the 11 volt range on your new battery.   The lowrance units say they will function down to 10volts, but I can tell you with my SLAs that by the time I get to 11 volts there is not much capacity left to draw from them and the voltage drops fast.

My elite 5hdi is supposed to have a typical draw of 1.1A per hour.  You could be right about the lower draw.  Usually you try to conserve battery by turning down the brightness; instead I find it cuts out less if I keep it at 10 and mess with the menu features.

Just ordered a 10AH SLA for my main source and if I need an extra I'll pack a separate dry bag with a back up. Anybody know how long typically an SLA battery lasts?  I've read its worth replacing them every 1 to 2 years, otherwise you're using a degraded battery.

It depends.  How far you draw it down before recharging, the type of charger (output amps), the phase of the moon, and whether or not it's a leap year.

Okay, the last two are bullpoo.  These are designed for mobility devices.  Reading the comments, users expect three years before needing to replace a battery.  I'd suspect they use them harder than we do with a fish finder.

Just my opinion, but a 10amp SLA is larger and heavier than a 9amp and you may not get enough additional run time to make the extra weight worthwhile.

When the SLA I bought kicks out, I'm going to give K2 brand LiFePo batteries a try (because they're a US company and use the same F1/F2 spade terminals as SLA batteries).  They cost a bit, but they don't have a list of a half-dozen "dont's" - the TalentCell should not be exposed to "humidity" - and they are claimed to have a longer lifespan than LiIon and SLA batteries.

And I'm a geek.  LiFePo feels nerdy.

When looking at lithium ion batteries it's IMPORTANT to look at the size of the input and output plugs.  Another issue I had with the 2nd Generation Anker battery before I sent it back was that it uses a proprietary-sized DC-out plug that you can't get anywhere else... and they don't (yet) stock or sell spares.  The first generation uses a DC-out plug that is almost universal.

As already mentioned, batteries designed to be an external power source for small electronics have issues to be addressed when used to power a fish finder.  Batteries like the TalentCell and the blue bricks are designed to be used with closed-circuit camera systems have fewer issues to address.

Potato batteries could have issues... but if I were stranded somewhere, I could have roast battery for dinner.  Try that with any other battery!

<CHOKE>  OH - that was me, just looked at the price of LiFePo batteries at K2.   12v7 to 12v10 are priced at 140 to 170 $$.    <CHOKE>   Maybe the price will come down a lot once their China factory comes online...

Speaking of chinese batteries, though... and this is for all the other battery geeks out there .. I finished my first test of the 7800mAH LiIon blue bricks that I ordered in to compare to my 8AH SLA.   So far, not so good on the bench test.   This was a slow discharge test, 0.3Amps or so draw has the battery still above 10volts after 15 hours of runtime.  12.5 to 10.4 volts over 15.8 hours.   However, as the battery voltage drops the amps drop too (fixed lamp load) so the total cumulative amp-hours is only 2.85 so far and it's getting close to the 10volt recommended minimum for my FF.   Unless the performance goes non-linear, I am expecting that I will get no more than 3.1 usable amp-hours out of the blue brick.   I may redo this test with twice the current draw to get it more in range of my FF with the backlight on, and see if anything changes.   First impression:  Pro - light weight.  Con - usable amp hours not even close to 'rated' value.

Next up - in the heavy-weight division - my old tried and true 8AH SLA.   

Hold up, time out... You mean to tell me that something you bought that was made in China didn't live up to its specifications? Get right outta town! 

Just messing with ya. I have to ask though, why are you considering K2 batteries? The stuff Battery Tender makes is cheaper.

Hold up, time out... You mean to tell me that something you bought that was made in China didn't live up to its specifications? Get right outta town! 

Just messing with ya. I have to ask though, why are you considering K2 batteries? The stuff Battery Tender makes is cheaper.

I only looked at K2 since Tinker posted he's looking at them.   Outside of weight the run-of-the-mill SLA has been working out great (have one Werker, a Cabelas, and not sure what the brand is on the other and I can't see any performance difference between them.   For me - I figured the blue brick was worth a real look for weight savings, but all the info I could find was contradictory, so figured I'd just bench test 'em and see!

I think you'll like what I'm putting together for my setup. As soon as I get it put together and make sure it's worth it I'll share my results. I'll probably post something even if it doesn't work all that well, just for the sake of adding it to the "Nope" column.

Hehe.  I learn a lot from others and I love the forum for being able to watch the evolution of ideas, but some ideas just don't survive...  I think my "nope" column is full-up. 

Maybe we should have a "DOH! Epic Fail" thread on Drillin' and Cuttin' or somewhere.   Would be fun to see how not to do things.

Looking forward to your new setup.

The shortcomings of the blue bricks are well-documented, here in NWKA and all over the WWW.  They never deliver what the factories rate them.  Regardless of the inflated numbers, if the bricks were an over-the-counter option, I'd go with them.  They're easy to adapt to power a fish-finder, and at $20 - $30 a battery, they're a deal - it's the 3 to 4 week delivery time that stops me.  If I have two or three around, in case one arrives DOA or goes belly-up on me, the cost of owning and using the bricks goes up and they stop being such a bargain.

I don't like the weight of the SLA battery I'm using.  Battery + box is the heaviest thing I carry - other than me - but they work, they don't need fancy accessories, and they're available over-the-counter, even down here in the wilds of the south coast.

LiFePo batteries are direct replacements for LA batteries, and many don't require special charging units or accessories.

Battery Tender LiFePo batteries don't get many positive reviews and comments about quality control in the manufacturing plants.  Since I have to order them and wait (and wait) for delivery, I'm looking for the fewest out-of-the-box quality issues more than for the cheapest price.  Street price for the K2 10aH battery is $139 - less than twice the cost of the Anker "20,000mAh" lithium ion batteries for at least three times the lifespan of Anker-style batteries.

I have two Anker 10000mah batteries which were awesome with my black and white non gps FFs. I had over 28 hours on one charge before deciding to recharge it. I was in heaven. Then, I bought an elite 5 downscan color with gps. I went from 28 hours plus to about 4 hours which is in line with AKrider's bench test results.

Boy do I hear you Tinker when it comes to weight.  I have more lead in my battery box than my tackle box by several pounds!   I don't need it and don't want it and thus my testing to see just how good or bad the real options are.   My problem with most of the 'data' is, it just doesn't quite clear the bar for the word 'data'.   It's anecdotal and really situational, and didn't help much for comparisons.   When you add the fact the quoted specs are unreliable for both the chinese and other manufacturers, I end up back at the test bench for a reality check.   

It doesn't help that, like Craig mentions, I really like the color FF with HDS and Chirp etc... and they do suck power.

Your point about availability, the cost, and the 'real world' usable battery life are what keep me carrying the weight so far.   It's a 5 pound difference though, so when the SLA bench test is done I'll be looking hard at the battery equivalent of horse-power to weight ratio (real usable WH / pound ) to see if the blue brick goes on the water or not.   At $100 plus, the LiFePo may not hit the bench (or the beach) any time soon.   

I understand you.  I'd have sworn that folks have bench-tested the bricks using 7watt bulbs, and posted the WH figures here, somewhere.

Compared to SLA batteries and the blue bricks, LiFePo batteries are a big whack in the wallet.  I'm taking them seriously because if (big IF) their lifespan allows them to be recharged 4 times more often than an Anker-style battery, one $140 LiFePo would outlast four $70 Anker-style external power packs, and LiFePo begins to make a bit of economic sense.

Looking forward to your test results.

Hehe.  I learn a lot from others and I love the forum for being able to watch the evolution of ideas, but some ideas just don't survive...  I think my "nope" column is full-up. 

Maybe we should have a "DOH! Epic Fail" thread on Drillin' and Cuttin' or somewhere.   Would be fun to see how not to do things.

Looking forward to your new setup.

Somewhere on here is an old thread called " DAMHIK"(don't ask me how I know) started by FFTW , polepole, zee and bsteves, I believe.  This idea would fit perfect there if you'd like to resurrect it.

I am by no means a battery expert, don't test batteries side by side, bit my LIFEPO battery powers my Lowrance elite 5 for a minimum of 9 hours running navigation, sonar, and down scan. It is light and expensive but it works for me.

OK - So here are the results.  Blue Brick vs. SLA

First the batteries:
Blue Brick - chinese DC 12800 (Banggood.com, shipped from Canada) at 8000mAh (8AH) Li-Ion power cell, slow charged on supplied charger to 12.6 volts.  I paid 23$.
Brick dimensions are 5"x2 5/8"x 1".   Weight is a bit over 9oz. 

SLA* - Cabelas branded 12v8.  12 Volt, 8AH battery.   Charged to 12.7 volts on black and decker charger.     Dims are 6"x2 5/8"x4", weight is 5 pound 10oz.  Online cost (AMZN):  $20
     *Comparison may be a bit unfair, as the blue brick is NEW and the SLA has a couple dozen charge cycles already, but it's the newest of the SLAs taat I have, and still came in close to 8AH.   I paid Alaska Cabelas price, but similar are available at AMZN for the $20 price range. 

Test bench comprised of digital ammeter, digital voltmeter, LED lights, switch.  Kept it simple.  Discharge rate for test started from 0.65Amps and dropped a bit as the voltage dropped.  Test was conducted to find the number of AmpHours of power delivered while the battery stayed in the recommended range for Lawrence FF (10volts min, max 17)

Results, kept simple:

  Blue Brick delivered 3.44 AmpHours before battery voltage dropped below 10.1 volts.  This is about 38.6 usable WattHours, or 68 usable WH/pound

  SLA delivered 7.9 AmpHours before battery dropped below 10.1 volts.   About 90.5 usable WattHours.   Thats 16.1 WH/pound.

So - at least for the first blue brick tested, nowhere near the 8AH rating, less than half in fact.   HOWEVER it weighs one tenth of the SLA and was roughly 10% more expensive.   So the power storage capacity (WH usable) per pound is MUCH higher.   Theres not a huge difference in price, but you could give each battery a score based on milli-amphours per pound per $dollar spent, that'd look like this: 

Blue Brick score:   249.0  mah/#/$
SLA Score:             71.3  mah/#/$

If you care most about money, or make long multi-day trips with no charger, and can live with the weight, go for the SLA - you get much greater amp hours and can charge up much faster.  For an extra $23 bucks you could buy two blue bricks, and get nearly the same run time carrying only 20% of the weight of an SLA.   

Maybe Salty will loan me his LiFePO battery for a bench test - they look light by the spec, but their 'comparative ratings' are based on CCA not on power storage, so until tested I'll trust the 9 hours.  /wink.