Winter (as in FREEZING) cold Kayak preparations... need ideas!

Okay.  I know this doesn't apply to a lot of folks but I figure 1000 brains are better than one. I think I saw that many names as members on this forum.

This kayaking things never ceases to amaze me.  Last week I caught fish off my Kayak.  I understand the fishery is available all winter long. 

So I have been asking on the Hobie forums hoping to get a good answer from hobie but I haven't.  I have gotten answers like no problems, or it takes an hour or two to thaw while on water, etc.  All good stuff but not good enough.  Losing a rudder or something like that is bad enough.  Catastrophic hull failure in sub zero temperatures in the middle of the Ocean would be just that...CATASTROPHIC...but to my life.

So if this type of plastic is fine in freezing weather then all is good.  But I figure the cables and stuff might still freeze.  I think the biggest part of the damage could come during transport.

If it was strictly a concern on water, I think my solution would be to actually to fill my hull with a gallon or two of seawater and then figure out a way to heat the water with a very low temp heater and the water would act as a heat sink that might be warm enough to keep everything above it thawed. 

For transport I was thinking about building/buying like a huge sleeping bag for thermal protection.  I can easily see transporting the kayak in temperatures of  0 deg F for 4 hours one way driving 65mph.  I can't say I like the sound of that with plastic stuff...then again, half our vehicles are now plastic...right?

Any ideas???  A little help!  lol. 

Also "ARE YOU CRAZY? YOU WILL DIE...and HERE IS WHY!"  IS a completely acceptable answer if you fully explain the "why"  part!!!  Just because you don't like cold is not an acceptable answer!  lol.

Geez. I would be more concerned about the wind and sea then the winter temps when fishing this time of year.... And staying dry
Not sure where your planning on fishing but remember that salt water doesn't freeze until about 27 degrees..... At zero degrees you might as well walk out on the ice and drill a hole.
Also bring an extra paddle.
By the way where the hell are you fishing??? Western Alaska???

Heh sounds like that last part may have come from a Hobie forum. Rudy what will the unfrozen water temps be? This is gonna be both a thermo dynamics problem ( ambient air x plastic ability to withstand cold soak x water temp) and a human engineering issue. ( do you have enough insulating layers under your dry suit?)

Honestly i dont have an answer. Wish you luck though

 Hi Kard...
 A couple of possible suggestions to parts of your inquiry.
 You can get "Arctic" grade grease that might work on your moving parts..mirage drive,rudder cables,etc.I know that AIH sells it by the tube.
 If your hull were to crack-or worse-I have no idea how to do a quick repair on that.Anyone
 It would probably be a good idea to inspect it thouroughly before you get it wet.The ambient temps across Turnagain Pass gets very cold and might put more stress on that hull than just being in Homer.
 Not too sure about the yak in a bag idea.It might be a help,maybe not.
 Might consider bringing spare parts with you in case something does break/malfunction.
 I'm no Hobie expert,but a little planning and foresite can go a long way.
 Good luck out there.

If you have a big enough piece from your cutting and drilling projects deep freezing it and doing a flex and impact test would be a start I think.

I'm looking forward to hearing the answer on this.

Do us a favor Rudy, if you decide to try it out, put plenty of floatation in your hull.  Think Pool noodles, inflatable buoyancy bags etc.  Oh yeah, make sure you have a paddle along too.

-Spot-

Interesting question. I wonder if this might be a question best answered by Hobie? I wonder if they've even tested in such temperatures?

So if you're fishing in freezing temperature and the water temp is in the low 30s, what are you wearing? Dry suit? survival suit? If you became separated from your boat and had to spend hours in the water waiting for rescue what type of protection would you need to keep from getting hypothermic? I would think a normal drysuit wouldn't cut it?

Only one way to know for sure.  If I were you I'd wait for those really cold days and head down and play around with it in shallow water, waist deep or less.  See what happens, see how the plastic reacts, what happens to the turbo fin material etc.  I'd trust that way more than some spec sheet from the Hobie front office.   I'm guessing you will have some issues with icing of the rudder cables etc. but my hunch is the hull material will be fine.. Aren't plastic ice cube trays made out of similar stuff    What's the water temp, mid to high 30's low 40's? 

This is why i love this forum  Some really good question to which I don't have all the answers and some really good suggestions.  So here's my take on it and the answers I do have.

If I get separated from my kayak I figure I am immobile after 15 to 20 minutes and a dead man in less than an hour. The water temp will likely be in the low 40's.  I think I will leash myself to the kayak in this case with a quick release.  I don't like to of course in Rivers and when there are boats around me since my number one concern then is other boats bearing down on me in which case I don't want to be attached.  But this winter fishing will be different.  Not that much traffic in the winter time but there is traffic. Frankly in the summer time, maybe I double the length of time for immobility and death.  What makes it safer is there is typically boat traffic all around.

If I have to wear a gumby suit (Survival suit), it's not worth it I don't think.  Heck if I was going to wear one of those, why take the kayak?  lol.  Too much. 

So that means I will likely not be fishing the Anchor Point where the response time is likely to be an hour or more.  So I will be concentrating my fishing near the end of the Homer spit where the response time after a mayday should be less than 15 minutes.  Certainly less than 30 minutes.  This fishery goes year round so its not like I am the only idiot doing...just likely the only idiot in a Kayak. Homer is also a major ice free port for Alaska and gets a bit of commercial traffic as well whether it be commercial fishing or cargo.

My major concern was strapping my kayak to the top of my car, driving 4 hours in 0 deg F weather, unloading the kayak and have it crack somewhere due to the cold as I hit it against the ground or maybe a big bump in the road.  Hopefully I notice and the crack & frankly is large enough that I notice it before I am a mile out.  So like Pelagic paddler was implying, best to tinker around and double check integrity before heading out deeper.

Obviously I have functional concerns like the rudder lines and such.  But that's just a serious inconvenience not as much a life and death deal.  But Mark's suggestion of arctic grease I think would solve those issues if I can verify its not going to deteriorate my lines.  I guess even if they do, maybe I just have to suck it up and change lines once per year. 

I carry the normal paddle plus I carry an extendable canoe paddle.  I carry a VHF and a cell phone.  I may have to add an epirb.

As far as flotation I do have a bunch of foam and every time I finish off a drink in a plastic bottle, i just tighten the lid and throw it down the hatch.  Probably have a dozen 20 to 30 oz bottles in there now plus the other foam. 

Other safety items includes a stirrup system to assist in getting back on the yak. 

Warmth while out of the water isn't an issue.  I am a hardcore ice fisherman and other than my feet, what i wear is the same as I wear during ice fishing.  The only difference is my outer shell just happens to be a drysuit.

And let's face it, the 0 deg temp I mention is not what I will be fishing in most likely.  but I am likely to encounter that temperature on the drive down.  I HIGHLY doubt I will be fishing in air temperature below 20 deg.  Homer, Seward, and Whittier are all coastal communities that are much warmer than interior Alaska.

Even if I was retired and could fish any day (which I am not), I bet its one or two days a month that will have the forecast and weather for me to attempt it.  But its because those nice on water days are rare, i don't want to cancel a trip just because I will be exposing my kayak to 0 deg F weather for an hour or two on the way down and that leads to failure. 

I emailed Hobie, I posted on their forum.  We'll see what they have to say.

The final thing I think I will have to change from my normal routine is make sure my kayak is bone dry before transport...at least on the way out to the Ocean.  I could see water entering cracks and then expanding as it froze and that could cause a failure somewhere.  i get very little water in my outback as of now so often I don't empty the cupful of water until it becomes 3 or 4 cups full.  The drain plug positioning on the outback isn't conducive to getting every drop of water out.

Well keep dropping ideas as they come to you!  Baby steps for me are tough. Especially when Homer is a 4 hour drive one way.  I might try Whittier which is only an hour away but what fun is that when you know you aren't likey to catch anything!  Then again, maybe I'll be the one to frist establish a winter fishery there!  lol.

Thanks ALL!  It is making me think over the strategy but nothing I have hear so far has pushed my line of thinking towards "It can't be done."  So we will keep you posted.  The really cold stuff tends to be January Februrary anyways.  I am hoping that I get enough opportunities as it is getting colder that i wll have some idea of performacne before its the super cold weather!!!!

And to add an additional bit of flavor to the discussion.....

The coveted White King!!!





It was DELICIOUS!!!!!!!!  I'd say "It was to DIE FOR!"  but probably not appropriate in this particular thread! 

It was DELICIOUS!!!!!!!!  I'd say "It was to DIE FOR!"  but probably not appropriate in this particular thread!

That's just wrong, for so many frickin reasons 

I'vedone a few 20-25F days, and haven't noticed much of an issue with the kayak. I have had rudder controls ice up a bit, but haven't had a problem getting them to break free.  From what I've noticed, though, hobie doesn't use steel cables in their rigging - at least they don't look like it. I'd suggest lubing moving parts with a cold-weather grease, as suggested, just to be on the safe side.  Aside from the bit of ice on the rudder system, and then the kayak freezing to the car, I've not had any further issues with the kayak.

Also, a bit of wax on your line guides goes a long way in keeping the line from freezing onto the guides. Braided lines are probably worse for this, but they also can cut through ice buildup easier.

I'vedone a few 20-25F days, and haven't noticed much of an issue with the kayak. I have had rudder controls ice up a bit, but haven't had a problem getting them to break free.  From what I've noticed, though, hobie doesn't use steel cables in their rigging - at least they don't look like it. I'd suggest lubing moving parts with a cold-weather grease, as suggested, just to be on the safe side.  Aside from the bit of ice on the rudder system, and then the kayak freezing to the car, I've not had any further issues with the kayak.

Also, a bit of wax on your line guides goes a long way in keeping the line from freezing onto the guides. Braided lines are probably worse for this, but they also can cut through ice buildup easier.

Great!  I think I can mitigate the cables and such.  I don't like the kayak freezing to the car thing but that should be solved by making sure the yak is bone dry when I leave and I'll just park in the garage when I get back and crank the heat. 

20deg to 25 deg experience should cover me this weekend...now for November through march...lol

My dashboard of my morning 10 minute commute today....

Getting some Type 1 aviation deicing fluid (Propylene Glycol) might be some good insurance against your yak freezing up on your car or in the water.  Put it in a 3 gallon manual pump sprayer.  Should be readily available at Merrill field.

Scott

Been out in 16 degree weather,  half day trip in my T-13.  Ice forming along the lakeshore. Anchor trolley, rigging was fine.  In my opinion the big problem in the cold is going to be the fisherman rather than the kayak, equipment, etc.  BTW - if anyone figures out how to keep hands warm and useable in cold, wet conditions I'll give them a million bucks.  Well, at least a gunny sack.

Bret