Grande Ronde float trip?

The best dates are mid Feb thru mid March.

Oh thank.  I know nothing about the Grande Ronde, in case you couldn't tell.   

So why are we looking at April dates instead of Feb-Mar?  I guess because of the temps?

-Allen

After talking with friends and the hatchery, I have to amend my previous statement. There will be fish in the system through April. Most of them will be higher in the system around Rondowa or above. My best days have always been in the times I previously mentioned. 10 plus days are common.

I have been offered a detailed map of the river and it's rapids by the friend that floats it often. I have graciously accepted and will pass it on to you gentlemen when I get it.

The last  piece of advice offered by my friend  was that he would suggest river kayaks for April. Statistically this is the month for spring melt. Although the lack of snow may make it a completely different scenario.

Pete - thank you very much for taking the time to put all that together.

since it would appear the groups consensus is leaning toward this not being a beginners trip I will be sitting it out.  that being said - what would be a good beginner multi day float to get that experience and I can start planning for that.

Great info here.

I have been offered a detailed map of the river and it's rapids by the friend that floats it often. I have graciously accepted and will pass it on to you gentlemen when I get it.

I would love a copy of this map.

that being said - what would be a good beginner multi day float to get that experience and I can start planning for that.

I'd try to get a little experience on day trips BEFORE going on a multi-day.

The John Day trip we did last year would be a good one once you get a little experience.

-Allen

what would be a good beginner multi day float to get that experience and I can start planning for that.

Crabbycabbie - It sounds like you are interested in developing two different kinds of experience:

1. Moving water and whitewater experience.  If all of your kayaking has been on lakes, the ocean, or big slow rivers, before you do a trip like the Grande Ronde, it would be a good idea to take some day fishing trips or float trips on rivers with a more experienced kayaker.  Class 2 rivers with lots of twists and turns are good ways to get some experience reading and maneuvering in moving water.  Then you can move up to rivers with some rocks, waves, and minor rapids.  Until you get some experience handling minor whitewater, consider leaving your fishing gear at home so you can focus on the paddling issues.  Consider adding thigh straps to your kayak, as it will increase your security when running whitewater.  I suggest that you work your way up to rapids which are bigger than the rapids you expect to encounter on the Grande Ronde, so you don't end up doing the biggest rapids you have ever encountered in a loaded boat on a section of river which isn't along a road.  Since there are areas in Oregon where you can kayak all winter, you could quite reasonably plan on getting enough moving water experience in the next couple of months to be ready to do the Grande Ronde trip this spring.  This kayaking stuff isn't rocket science.  I routinely encounter guys and gals who took a kayak roll class in a pool, and in a couple of months are running Class IV whitewater confidently, and are well on their way to becoming kayak studs.

2.  Camping. You can learn everything you need to know about camping out of a kayak by doing a couple of overnight kayak trips to figure out what gear and food you need to bring, and how to pack it in your kayak.  Plan a couple of fishing trips in areas you know where you can fish for a couple of hours on Saturday, stop on an island or an isolated point and camp Saturday night, fish for a while Sunday, and then go home.  Make a point of doing a couple of those trips in cool and inclement weather, so the first time you try cooking dinner in the rain isn't when you're on the Grande Ronde, far from any motel rooms and hot showers.  You can quite reasonably plan on getting enough kayak camping experience in the next couple of months to be ready to do the Grande Ronde trip this spring.  This kayak camping stuff isn't rocket science.  If you've done any backpacking, you'll find it very easy, and a lot less work. If you haven't done any backpacking, skim through a couple of backpacking books for ideas.

The Grande Ronde is a very easy and pleasant trip at moderate levels such as 5,000 cfs.  However, it's a bit more exciting a twice that level.  So if rain or snowmelt punch the river levels up, you should be prepared to pull out of the trip.  Save a high water trip until you have more experience and confidence.

Adding to what pmmpete said, when starting out there are a couple of things to be aware of and to practice.  The first thing to be aware is that water flow doesn't always go downstream.  Think about eddies.  Crossing into and out of a eddy is something we don't normally encounter as kayak anglers on non-moving water.  One of the first lessons I learned was to "flash my butt" upcurrent.  Since upcurrent changes as you go into and out of an eddy this means you'll be shifting from one side to the other as you cross the eddyline.  Failure to shift your weight will result in the leading edge catching and you encountering a very unstable condition, possibly flipping.  Practice this over and over.  It's actually kind of fun to skid into an eddy or to peel out of one.

The same "flash your butt" upcurrent applies when you hit a rock.  Instinct sort of tells you to lean away from the rock.  Big mistake as this usually results in you leaning upcurrent, catching your leading edge, and again, getting unstable or flipping.  Lean into the rock when you hit it.

One last thing to practice and master is ferrying across a current, both forward and backward.  Back paddling is again not something we normally do a lot of when fishing flatwater.  However, it is a very useful skill to have mastered when trying to pull back and away from an upcoming hazard as you are floating downstream.

Combine eddy entering and exiting with ferrying skills.  As you're sitting in an eddy, identify the next eddy you want to target and go for it.  The next eddy can be downstream or even upstream, if the flows allow you to ferry upcurrent.  Eddies can be anywhere in a river, along the sides, behind rocks or upwellings.  Even in water that you don't think you can make headway up against, you can often hop the eddies, or micro-eddies, upcurrent.  We're getting a little more advanced here, but you'll be amazed at how fast you can become comfortable with these maneuvers.

Even more advanced is catching those midwater eddies, which are often times behind a small (or large) wave.  Those eddies can, and will, pull you up onto the wave.  You'll find yourself surfing them in no time, often times adding some extra paddle strokes to put you up on the wave.  Start small and work your way up.  Practice holding the wave with some extra paddle strokes or rudding.  Practice entering and exiting these eddies.  Surfing the waves can be exhilaratingly fun.  But you can quickly find yourself beyond your skills if you haven't mastered entering and exiting eddies.  Remember, there is a fine line between being in the eddy and getting pushed out of it.  Cross it badly and things can go bad.

As pmmpete alluded to, you can learn these basic skills pretty fast.  It wouldn't be surprising to me if you were able to do this stuff in a half a day, especially if you have someone experienced along offering a little coaching.   Mastering them may take a few more days, but the basic understanding of what you should be trying to do will come fast.  All the while you'll be learning how to read the water.  Class II water is forgiving.  Get comfortable with reading the water and paddling under these conditions before "graduating" to less forgiving water.  And get input from more experienced paddlers on the water to help you on your journey.

-Allen

So why are we looking at April dates instead of Feb-Mar?  I guess because of the temps?

-Allen

Weather is the only reason that I said April.  I'd go in the cold if somebody else was up for it.  I would have already floated it if I had at least one person to go with me. (safety first)

Here's a graph of the water levels at Troy.  The orange line is the important one, it's the average for the last 17yrs

Are there options for day floats?

-Allen

Not really unless you just want to haul a$$.  Even then I don't know if you can make this float in a day.

There is the option of floating just the Wallowa river.  You could start at Lostine and float down to Minam or even put in at the hatchery and float the couple miles down to the Minam park.  I don't know that many people do it because you have the highway is right next to you the entire time. 

Come to think of it, I wouldn't mind making this float to get more river experience in my kayak.  I might have a friend drop me off and pick me up after he's done fishing.  The biggest problem is that there are lots of bank fishermen in these areas.

Adding to what pmmpete said, when starting out there are a couple of things to be aware of and to practice.  The first thing to be aware is that water flow doesn't always go downstream.  Think about eddies.  Crossing into and out of a eddy is something we don't normally encounter as kayak anglers on non-moving water.  One of the first lessons I learned was to "flash my butt" upcurrent.  Since upcurrent changes as you go into and out of an eddy this means you'll be shifting from one side to the other as you cross the eddyline.  Failure to shift your weight will result in the leading edge catching and you encountering a very unstable condition, possibly flipping.  Practice this over and over.  It's actually kind of fun to skid into an eddy or to peel out of one.

The same "flash your butt" upcurrent applies when you hit a rock.  Instinct sort of tells you to lean away from the rock.  Big mistake as this usually results in you leaning upcurrent, catching your leading edge, and again, getting unstable or flipping.  Lean into the rock when you hit it.

One last thing to practice and master is ferrying across a current, both forward and backward.  Back paddling is again not something we normally do a lot of when fishing flatwater.  However, it is a very useful skill to have mastered when trying to pull back and away from an upcoming hazard as you are floating downstream.

Combine eddy entering and exiting with ferrying skills.

Would a white water intro class be a good place to learn & practice some of these things?  I would think the techniques would be similar in our fishing kayaks in the level I & II waters we would likely encounter.

Would a white water intro class be a good place to learn & practice some of these things?  I would think the techniques would be similar in our fishing kayaks in the level I & II waters we would likely encounter.

Absolutely!  And they'll give you a running start at reading the water.

-Allen

Also many clubs and some shops offer social paddles that are a great way to get out in a controlled environment

Sitting here watching this unfold, a wild thought comes up regarding the watercraft involved.

How would a PA 12 or 14, with an oar package instead of the drive unit, and having the drive well plugged, fair on a trip like this? You know, use it as a surrogate drift boat....