Kayak Fishing Paddles

As some of y'all may know, I have been sentenced to paddling instead of pedaling my Hobie Adventure due to extreme stupidity, but I've had an interesting experience in spite of it. I've re-discovered that I actually like paddling.  

 Don't get me wrong, I really miss the mirage drive in the wind and waves, and it's really nice to be able to hold a position in current and have your hands available to fish with. But paddling works and pretty dang well! Who'd a thunk it? I've gotta eventually replace the damn drive because it just plain works. The "Damn" part stems from the fact that it's too damn expensive! (~$500+ w/turbo fins! ) So I'm thinking of upgrading the paddle.

 That said, I've gone though a few paddles, but none of them very high quality. Glass shafts, plastic blades, basic stock paddles. I did have one that was black, glass and lighter than the rest (I got it from Andy n' Bax), but nothing special. Then that got lost too (see above).
 
 I was left with the first paddle I'd ever owned.  It came with my first Cobra and it had actually been relegated to use as a shovel for sand castles (it made two great shovels!).
 It's pretty heavy (but not as heavy as it looks) with HUGE plastic blades and an aluminum shaft,,,,, and I love it! Dang thing moves a ton of water and just feels right. All of my other "better" paddles felt like they slipped more water than they moved. This paddle feels more like I'm planting the paddle and sliding the boat forward.

I've also changed my position on the boat. My butt is maybe 3" or 4" forward from the pedaling position and my feet hit the forward "bulkhead". I can sit up straighter and twist a lot better. The boat seems to "sit" better and definitely scoots right along. Paddling next to Chappy in a Revo with stock fins and another buddy in a Hobie Quest, I had to slow down or skip strokes to stay with them (which surprisingly almost contradicts a discussion I was having with my favorite paddling curmudgeon)

I've generally been dissuaded from wing paddles, but on second look they "appear" to be a good fit.
From what I've read (which is certainly not the same thing as doing) they plant like concrete, move a lot of water, and the stroke ends out to the side a bit, all of which would lend itself well to my style (slower cadence and a powerful pull) and a wide SOT. Some of the down sides are that they require better technique (or you get to practice reboarding on every other stroke) and they don't scull or brace very well.

So what say you guys who know more than I do? (which is easy because I don't know much)  Does a wing sound like an idea or should I just look for something light with a big azz blade? (Does such exist?) Time to open up a discussion on fishing paddles as it does not fit the paradigm of either sea kayaks or white water boats.
More power, slower cadence, wide boats,,,,,anything else?

I'm pretty sure I have the same one (power flex). I am looking at this one as an upgrade (Wener Ikelos). It's pricey, but it is a high angle paddle with a lot of bite and a whole lot less weight.

I use a werner ikelos...when I use it with my SOT, it feels like I'm paddling in concrete and is exhausting.

Just know that if you don't rotate your torso while paddling and just use your arms, this paddle is going to kick your arse real quick.

I would recommend something with a little less surface area, as the big blade + big drag from boat = arse kicker.

It's also going to be hard to go "high angle" with a wide beam boat. I would use a 215 or 220cm shuna with my scupper pro, and that's enough blade to get torque and overcome wind and current, but not so big as to cause heart palpatations everytime I paddle. That's kind of mid angle.

Most of the time I recommend the werner camano or kalliste in a 220-230cm for SOT's. For general purpose "relaxed" or low angle touring. Shuna for those entering the surf zone and ocean.

No need for carbon unless you want a foam core blade for help with bracing and rolling. regular carbon without the foam core I don't think is worth the extra $130...you only save 2 oz and the fiberglass will last forever.

As some of y'all may know, I have been sentenced to paddling instead of pedaling my Hobie Adventure due to extreme stupidity, but I've had an interesting experience in spite of it. I've re-discovered that I actually like paddling.  

 Don't get me wrong, I really miss the mirage drive in the wind and waves, and it's really nice to be able to hold a position in current and have your hands available to fish with. But paddling works and pretty dang well! Who'd a thunk it? I've gotta eventually replace the damn drive because it just plain works. The "Damn" part stems from the fact that it's too damn expensive! (~$500+ w/turbo fins! ) So I'm thinking of upgrading the paddle.

 That said, I've gone though a few paddles, but none of them very high quality. Glass shafts, plastic blades, basic stock paddles. I did have one that was black, glass and lighter than the rest (I got it from Andy n' Bax), but nothing special. Then that got lost too (see above).
 
 I was left with the first paddle I'd ever owned.  It came with my first Cobra and it had actually been relegated to use as a shovel for sand castles (it made two great shovels!).
 It's pretty heavy (but not as heavy as it looks) with HUGE plastic blades and an aluminum shaft,,,,, and I love it! Dang thing moves a ton of water and just feels right. All of my other "better" paddles felt like they slipped more water than they moved. This paddle feels more like I'm planting the paddle and sliding the boat forward.

I've also changed my position on the boat. My butt is maybe 3" or 4" forward from the pedaling position and my feet hit the forward "bulkhead". I can sit up straighter and twist a lot better. The boat seems to "sit" better and definitely scoots right along. Paddling next to Chappy in a Revo with stock fins and another buddy in a Hobie Quest, I had to slow down or skip strokes to stay with them (which surprisingly almost contradicts a discussion I was having with my favorite paddling curmudgeon)

I've generally been dissuaded from wing paddles, but on second look they "appear" to be a good fit.
From what I've read (which is certainly not the same thing as doing) they plant like concrete, move a lot of water, and the stroke ends out to the side a bit, all of which would lend itself well to my style (slower cadence and a powerful pull) and a wide SOT. Some of the down sides are that they require better technique (or you get to practice reboarding on every other stroke) and they don't scull or brace very well.

So what say you guys who know more than I do? (which is easy because I don't know much)  Does a wing sound like an idea or should I just look for something light with a big azz blade? (Does such exist?) Time to open up a discussion on fishing paddles as it does not fit the paradigm of either sea kayaks or white water boats.
More power, slower cadence, wide boats,,,,,anything else?

Sounds like you might like the ikelos....I'd check out the werner coryvreckn in FG....same blade as the ikelos without the foam core and carbon = $265 MSRP vs. $390. I use both the ikelos in CB and coryvreckin in FG for sea kayaking, but I like the shuna for SOT's as it's not as fatiguing.

You're probably going to have to special order one....generally don't come in lengths greater than 215.

I honestly wouldn't bother with the wing in a SOT. It would be more trouble than it's worth.....unless you just want something different.

A big stong dude with a big blade would wup a mirage drive any day.....I'm neither big or strong.

I think in a sea kayak I would win, but paddling a similar specked SOT I think I would win off the line but I'd fatigue sprinting over distance vs. the mirage drive.

We DO really need to test this some day.

 

I also use the werner (glass)corryvreckan but a 240 bent shaft for paddling the big SOTs. Tons of power and I like that when I tell the boat to do something it responds immediately. On the flip side when I let my technique slip, while doing something like a sculling draw or pry, the mistake can cost me a swim.
Im rough on gear and have had no issues or fractures with werner glass blades.

Im in agreement with NANOOK that a speed test is in order.
the 100yrd splash
my T160/corryvreckan combo vs the Hobie adventure/mirage drive.
Zee,  consider this your formal challenge
im waiting

I'm down for that challenge too! 

Im in agreement with NANOOK that a speed test is in order.
the 100yrd splash
my T160/corryvreckan combo vs the Hobie adventure/mirage drive.
Zee,  consider this your formal challenge
im waiting

What?
What was that I heard?
Sure sounded like the gauntlet being thrown down to me 

Come on Zee, you gonna let somebody swinging a twisted branch call out that fine piece of overpriced machinery that Mr. Alter and company are so proud of?  

 HS, I dunno man, that Big A with the turbo fins may be more than you want to chew.
Now the Revo with standard fins is another story, but that Adventure is almost shaped like a real kayak.
 

Actually this is the conversation that I've been having with Jason. (Paddle vs. Pedal long run) I think we agreed that the paddler would take it out of the hole, but the pedal would eventually chase you down. But last weekend was a pleasant surprise. That big ol' paddle made a big difference.

 It also depends on a lot of factors (like the boats, the set-up, paddler, and now the paddle)  The Big A and the T16 might be interesting though.
This is starting to sound like "Pinks" or "PassTime",,,  "You got round or square tubes?"

I also use the werner (glass)corryvreckan but a 240 bent shaft for paddling the big SOTs. Tons of power and I like that when I tell the boat to do something is responds immediately. On the flip side when I let my technique slip, while doing something like a sculling draw or pry, the mistake can cost me a swim.
Im rough on gear and have had no issues or fractures with werner glass blades.

Im in agreement with NANOOK that a speed test is in order.
the 100yrd splash
my T160/corryvreckan combo vs the Hobie adventure/mirage drive.
Zee,  consider this your formal challenge
im waiting

240 Cory?!?!?! holy sh*t.

That defies all logic. but your right, if you have the muscle, you will get all the response you want from that blade in whatever boat.

It's more the forward stroke I'm talking about. If you start using your little t-rex arms instead of your torso for forward paddling, this paddle will let you know in abut 30 seconds, because your shoulders will be on fire. On the other hand, it lets you know when your technique is slipping, and forces you to learn/use proper torso rotation.

I'm good for about 6 kts sustained with no current & wind....maybe 6.5 We've had this discussion before.

I'd be challenged in a svelt sea kayak to outrun a peddler over distance...I think I'd win a 20+miler, and a 100 yarder, but it's those long sprints like 1/2 mile I think the pedals have advantage.

I'd smoke a tarpon 160 in any category

I guess the factor for me is that I like a big blade, but the mid sized shuna is a good comprimise for me for power vs. cadence. When I paddle a SOT with the cory, my stroke is very slow but powerful, I'm limited to that climbing gear. With a little bit smaller but still big blade like the shuna, I get a good low gear with the option of a truly high gear...er fast cadence.

At a certain point, I can't keep the cory quiet and increase my cadence, which means I'm airating the water and burning allot of energy but not getting it all back from the paddle.

With the shuna I get enough low end torque with the option of high gear cadence & speed. It really just means it's got get up and go, but is less fatiguing over distance than the cory.....for me..

with a sea kayak it's ikelos or cory hands down.

I must confess. I took the Adventure for a spin a few weeks back and there is no doubt Im faster in the T160 BUT there is a good reason that I wouldnt want a race to go any further than 100 yards.
That is probably the point where the longer muscles used to power a mirage drive will start to overtake the T160 and my over 40 body.

That's it. I'm calling a race as soon as finals are done.

I too use a 240 with big blades paddling my Fish and Dive.  Once I'm warmed up and get in a rhythm I can really  cover some ground.  For me its comes down to focusing on/using back and shoulder muscles not the "t-rex" arms.

The paddle shape/weight/length/etc. is one part of the equation, the the other and in my opinion more important aspect is the physical condition of the paddler.  

240 Cory?!?!?! holy sh*t.

That defies all logic.

Defiled logic. I like that!
I was thinking along those lines in length. I agree completely that even the govenator (in his best form) would fry under arm power alone, but it's not really just a big power thing. I feel like its more of a mass thing. I am top heavy and I like the way a big, whole body, slower stroke feels better than a faster, lighter cadence. It feels more efficient. I'm not certain I could back that up though.

I'm good for about 6 kts sustained with no current & wind....maybe 6.5 We've had this discussion before.

That's pretty dang hot in an SOT. My BEST speed in the BigA with the turbo fins is 6 kts according to the gps (and it were'nt fer long).
But we gotta compare oranges to turnips. Could you maintain 6 kts in an SOT?

BTW: my money is still on you in a sea kayak vs. any plastic SOT over the long haul and the sprint. You got efficiency, top end, and your whole rig weighs less.
 
Now throw a Kaskazi with a mirage drive in the mix and it's a whole new game. 

I must confess. I took the Adventure for a spin a few weeks back and there is no doubt Im faster in the T160 BUT there is a good reason that I wouldnt want a race to go any further than 100 yards.
That is probably the point where the longer muscles used to power a mirage drive will start to overtake the T160 and my over 40 body.

Again, you gotta compare set-ups. If the BigA you drove didn't have the turbo fins, I'd agree. But the same boat with the bigger fins is night and day.

When I first launched mine with the stock fins, I was almost ready to send it back. It was like pedaling with your wheel off the ground or a granny gear. The turbo fins gave it some bite and then the thing moved.

Another thing is the sensation of speed when you are pedaling the BigA can be deceptive. During that first outing with the little fins the boat did not feel like it was moving, but the gps said I was going 5 knots (almost 6 mph). I've also been in some good wind and waves at Timothy Lake and felt like I was not making any headway. Again, the gps surprisingly said 4 knots upwind with very little effort.
 
On the other hand, I've kicked really hard (fast) with the turbo finned mirage drive and the gps says I'm really not that hot (~6 knots) 

I dunno, I think that subjective feeling of speed has to do with the fact that your doing a lot less activity pedaling than paddling. Even with really poor form, you move around a lot more paddling than sitting on the Hobie stairmaster.

I agree, but there's so much drag from the hull of a SOT that I find allot of energy is waisted on cory being pulled through the water and making bubbles (therefor catching less water and providing less thrust) than the slightly smaller shuna that I can move through the water faster with less bubbles. Faster cadence & slightly less thrust (still a big high angle blade)

For me, it feels like I'm putting allot of energy in to a hull that is plowing into a wall of water and resisting said power. It's kind of a wash I guess.

I move at a higher rate of speed in a SOT with the shuna at a higher cadence than the cory at a lower cadence, but use more energy plowing through with a cory and get less in return.

I'm also paddling up to 20 miles on any given day.

240 Cory?!?!?! holy sh*t.

That defies all logic.

Defiled logic. I like that!
I was thinking along those lines in length. I agree completely that even the govenator (in his best form) would fry under arm power alone, but it's not really just a big power thing. I feel like its more of a mass thing. I am top heavy and I like the way a big, whole body, slower stroke feels better than a faster, lighter cadence. It feels more efficient. I'm not certain I could back that up though.

I'm good for about 6 kts sustained with no current & wind....maybe 6.5 We've had this discussion before.

That's pretty dang hot in an SOT. My BEST speed in the BigA with the turbo fins is 6 kts according to the gps (and it were'nt fer long).
But we gotta compare oranges to turnips. Could you maintain 6 kts in an SOT?

BTW: my money is still on you in a sea kayak vs. any plastic SOT over the long haul and the sprint. You got efficiency, top end, and your whole rig weighs less.
 
Now throw a Kaskazi with a mirage drive in the mix and it's a whole new game. 

I must confess. I took the Adventure for a spin a few weeks back and there is no doubt Im faster in the T160 BUT there is a good reason that I wouldnt want a race to go any further than 100 yards.
That is probably the point where the longer muscles used to power a mirage drive will start to overtake the T160 and my over 40 body.

Again, you gotta compare set-ups. If the BigA you drove didn't have the turbo fins, I'd agree. But the same boat with the bigger fins is night and day. When I first launched mine with the stock fins, I was almost ready to send it back. It was like pedaling with your wheel off the ground or a granny gear. The turbo fins gave it some bite and then the thing moved.

6.5kts in my sea kayak....sorry....I could maybe GET my SOT to 6.5 but it would come to a screaching hault as soon as that speed was met.

The other thing is, who cares what anyone says. If it feels right it is right.