Kayak Fishing Paddles

At a certain point, I can't keep the cory quiet and increase my cadence, which means I'm airating the water and burning allot of energy but not getting it all back from the paddle.

Ahhh, now I see! This is where we diverge my friend. I never push the paddle hard (fast?) enough to cavitate. The only noise I hear is the water coming off the blade when it leaves the water. I guess I never get out of low gear.

I also never push (pull) hard enough to approach hull speed and my boat is not fighting to slow down. Not that it glides very far, but it's not pushing against a wall of water.

 I guess it has to do with the ultimate goal. I want to make at most 3.5 to 4 mph (not knots) good with as little effort as possible for extended periods and have a sweep that spins me on axis.


(WOW! you guys were busy while I went to dinner)

the big blade will get you there with fewer strokes than a low angle blade I think is the bottom line.

If you are a powerful person, the big blade will probably feel right. If you were a 95# school girl I'd steer you to the low angle camano or even athena as the cory would kick your arse in 50 yds.

But people of mass with lots of upper body strength would find the camano to be like paddling with a toothpick.

for me, the shuna or cypress 215 is just right for the SOT.

But now that I'm thinkin on it, the shaft length might have been my issue. I'll have to try a big blade with a 220-230cm shaft and see if it make a difference.

I think bottom line is my sea yak vs SOT feel totally different, and I paddle the SIK way more. Truth is I think one gets used to anything with enough time, and technique adjusts accordingly.

Actually with proper paddling you engage your whole body including your legs....when I plant the blade on the left, I push on the peg with my left foot. ends up kind of a pumping action like cycling. when you rotate the torso and pump with the legs, the effort is spread throughout the whole body which is why I think I'd beat a pedaler off the line, in the 100 yd dash, and long distance, but maybe not in a really long sprint like 1/2 mile.

We really just need to test this. We've been debating physics for over a year!

I can still squat a whole lot more that I can lift any other way ... because my legs are directly engaged.

-Allen

True, and when you pump your legs, your legs are directly engaged.....and your core..abs, obliques, lats....everything + your legs.

I try to explain it as pushing the boat past the paddle with your feet, rather than pulling the paddle past the boat. Still haven't figured out if that helps or makes it worse.

At a certain point, I can't keep the cory quiet and increase my cadence, which means I'm airating the water and burning allot of energy but not getting it all back from the paddle.

(WOW! you guys were busy while I went to dinner)

I work at a kayak shop and it's December in the PNW

That reminds me. Check out http://www.aldercreek.com for all your Holiday gift needs. Grandma needs a carbon fiber paddle.

Interesting thread here. Seems when paddles are talked about the mirage drive gets thrown in there too. I've talked w/ spidey about an Adventure Vs. Tarpon race (I think like 3 years ago) and it would be a lot of fun. As long as it's a SOT race it's a fair comparison. I see them as equally matched but what are we really racing for? Is speed that important to kayak fishing? IMO it's really about getting from point A to point B fishing there (trolling whatever) and going back to A. It all depends if you want to do that more efficiently so that you have more energy for fishing or if you're in it for the paddling and fishing. In the end I give paddlers more props, it is harder.

Z

At a certain point, I can't keep the cory quiet and increase my cadence, which means I'm airating the water and burning allot of energy but not getting it all back from the paddle.

(WOW! you guys were busy while I went to dinner)

I work at a kayak shop and it's December in the PNW

That reminds me. Check out http://www.aldercreek.com for all your Holiday gift needs. Grandma needs a carbon fiber paddle.

Jason,
At the boathouse tonight???

Grandma needs a carbon fiber paddle.

Who you callin grandma!?!



 

 That'd be Mr. grandpa to you sonny!

 

At a certain point, I can't keep the cory quiet and increase my cadence, which means I'm airating the water and burning allot of energy but not getting it all back from the paddle.

(WOW! you guys were busy while I went to dinner)

I work at a kayak shop and it's December in the PNW

That reminds me. Check out http://www.aldercreek.com for all your Holiday gift needs. Grandma needs a carbon fiber paddle.

Jason,
At the boathouse tonight???

home now.

Interesting thread here. Seems when paddles are talked about the mirage drive gets thrown in there too. I've talked w/ spidey about an Adventure Vs. Tarpon race (I think like 3 years ago) and it would be a lot of fun. As long as it's a SOT race it's a fair comparison. I see them as equally matched but what are we really racing for? Is speed that important to kayak fishing? IMO it's really about getting from point A to point B fishing there (trolling whatever) and going back to A. It all depends if you want to do that more efficiently so that you have more energy for fishing or if you're in it for the paddling and fishing. In the end I give paddlers more props, it is harder.

Z

you're right zee, efficiency is what I'm really blathering about.

Actually with proper paddling you engage your whole body including your legs....when I plant the blade on the left, I push on the peg with my left foot. ends up kind of a pumping action like cycling. when you rotate the torso and pump with the legs, the effort is spread throughout the whole body which is why I think I'd beat a pedaler off the line, in the 100 yd dash, and long distance, but maybe not in a really long sprint like 1/2 mile.

We really just need to test this. We've been debating physics for over a year!

I can still squat a whole lot more that I can lift any other way ... because my legs are directly engaged.

-Allen

True, and when you pump your legs, your legs are directly engaged.....and your core..abs, obliques, glutes, lats....everything + your legs.

I try to explain it as pushing the boat past the paddle with your feet, rather than pulling the paddle past the boat. Still haven't figured out if that helps or makes it worse.

I've been working on getting my whole body into my sprints lately.  The combination of pushing more with the upper hand than I'm pulling and ensuring that my legs and torso are fully engaged really helps my maximum sustainable speed.  On a smoothe windless day last week I managed more than 1/4 mile at or above 5MPH.  
I definitely noticed the paddle cavitating and losing efficiency as I reached my top end.  Changing the angle of my paddle face thru the stroke and getting a good, clean dig (without pulling air in behind the blade) seemed to help a bit.  I don't think I'd be winning any races against and Adventure yet though.....  

Actually with proper paddling you engage your whole body including your legs....when I plant the blade on the left, I push on the peg with my left foot. ends up kind of a pumping action like cycling. when you rotate the torso and pump with the legs, the effort is spread throughout the whole body which is why I think I'd beat a pedaler off the line, in the 100 yd dash, and long distance, but maybe not in a really long sprint like 1/2 mile.

We really just need to test this. We've been debating physics for over a year!

I can still squat a whole lot more that I can lift any other way ... because my legs are directly engaged.

-Allen

True, and when you pump your legs, your legs are directly engaged.....and your core..abs, obliques, glutes, lats....everything + your legs.

I try to explain it as pushing the boat past the paddle with your feet, rather than pulling the paddle past the boat. Still haven't figured out if that helps or makes it worse.

I've been working on getting my whole body into my sprints lately.  The combination of pushing more with the upper hand than I'm pulling and ensuring that my legs and torso are fully engaged really helps my maximum sustainable speed.  On a smoothe windless day last week I managed more than 1/4 mile at or above 5MPH.  
I definitely noticed the paddle cavitating and losing efficiency as I reached my top end.  Changing the angle of my paddle face thru the stroke and getting a good, clean dig (without pulling air in behind the blade) seemed to help a bit.  I don't think I'd be winning any races against and Adventure yet though.....  

Spot try this next time you're messing around:

Keep the blade perpendicular to the surface through out your entire stroke. you present the most blade area possible when the blade is vertical. any tilt in the blade (pushing on the top, pulling past the hip, reaching forward) will reduce the surface area presented and catch less water. pulling past the hip makes you shovel water and push the stern down, increasing drag.

So I lean forward and try and enter the left blade in at or past my feet, perpendicular to the surface, and push with my left foot as I rotate my torso and slice the blade out at my hip. the bend in my arms never changes, only the up and down motion combined with torso rotation moves the paddle. repeat on the right.

It's like holding a beach ball between your arms and showing it to the person on your right, on your left, on your right.................

The short stroke doesnt feel natural, but if you practice it it will stick and I promise you will go further, faster, with less effort.

The short stroke doesnt feel natural, but if you practice it it will stick and I promise you will go further, faster, with less effort.

Now...what are we talking about again?

Interesting thread here. Seems when paddles are talked about the mirage drive gets thrown in there too. I've talked w/ spidey about an Adventure Vs. Tarpon race (I think like 3 years ago) and it would be a lot of fun.

Zee
I think the reason that when we talk paddles and paddling the paddle vs pedal thing comes up so often is that it IS fun. I enjoy taunting my pedaling friends even though I know full well when the race is over and we finally know who was the faster, you will continue to cruise around on the troll and ill be

The short stroke doesnt feel natural, but if you practice it it will stick and I promise you will go further, faster, with less effort.

Now...what are we talking about again?

vertical shafts, strokes, lots of practice, further, faster, argghhhh....

Beavis & Butthead would have a freaking field day in one of my classes

Actually with proper paddling you engage your whole body including your legs....when I plant the blade on the left, I push on the peg with my left foot. ends up kind of a pumping action like cycling. when you rotate the torso and pump with the legs, the effort is spread throughout the whole body which is why I think I'd beat a pedaler off the line, in the 100 yd dash, and long distance, but maybe not in a really long sprint like 1/2 mile.

We really just need to test this. We've been debating physics for over a year!

I can still squat a whole lot more that I can lift any other way ... because my legs are directly engaged.

-Allen

True, and when you pump your legs, your legs are directly engaged.....and your core..abs, obliques, lats....everything + your legs.

I try to explain it as pushing the boat past the paddle with your feet, rather than pulling the paddle past the boat. Still haven't figured out if that helps or makes it worse.

When I cheat on my bench press and push on my legs, I still can't bench as much as I can squat.

-Allen